April SCCA Fastrack

[Sccabrz192]

LOL im not sure what your personal vendetta is against me but my letter siad no such thing. I am entiled to my opinion and not sure why it offends you such a great deal.

Your quotes are no surprise to me, I know what the sport is about, but you seem to confuse what I said as being "fast" as ultimate speed, which your quotes discuss, versus average speed which equates to the cars agility, which is what I was discussing. as my letter said, my issue was spending more to get less.

And as far as calling me out for quoting Index, Index is not arbitrary, its set based on year over year data and adjusted based on data. I will never claim its perfect, no one will, but it is a tool based in as much truth as feasibly possible in this hobby. There is no denying in general terms that CS should be faster than STX around an autocross course.

Regardless of our differing opinions, as my letter states i understand i am in the minority and street tires are basically a foregone conclusion for stock. My letter mainly addresses the improper way i feel the SCCA is treating R-comps and current stock competitors. unlike somebody bitching and complaining, for every issue I have I provide my proposal for a solution. I feel the sunsetting of current stock and its competitors is handled improperly with this proposal, and completely axeing r-comps in a completely streetable car package i also feel is a poor decision.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by jdrxb9

If you want betime reading material, head over to here - 20 pages worth of stuff!

I agree that the details of some of the wordings needs refined/clarified. I agree with one bar only. I don't think the new rules (aside from the 2 bar part) create less streetable cars. The only really 'new' mod would be camber allowance and that will be limited by the 'no mods to center hole'. We already allow tire killing toe settings. This is no worse and for a lot of cars a lot better than what we have now. Also, I've personally seen folks leave because they show up, kill the shoulders of their tires and then find out doing something about it will put them in a class they don't want to be in. Or worse, they find out their grid neighbor does get to fix camber but they don't just because one manufacturer has the right parts in the catalog and the right words in the FSM.

TomR - One data point - at 1.3 to 1.5 deg F camber on the BRZ, I flipped my continually front-back rotated AD08's at ~115 runs. Also, consider that the people/cars that this is intended to help the most might not be currently running in stock, or even running at all.

Also, wheel update/backdate would be really good for some folks, but I doubt they will open that can of worms in stock/street. (first wheels, then what else?)

Overall, there is no doubt that the way it is proposed, it is a huge 'take back' for the folks who like R's and think they are worth the $. I've not actually driven A6's, but I can still remember WAY back to my first ride-along in a fast car on R-comps and how fun running R's can be (enough grip to put my old neon on two wheels on occasion!). OTOH, I think there is an effort to get away from more/indexed classes, not learning to live with them.

What if a tweaked version of the allowances was implemented across the board in 'street' and then, since the classes are going to need shuffled anyway, split off 2-3 classes for R tires (Super Street A/B/(C)?) and put in whatever truly fast/quick and/or big power/tire cars fit. Rearrange the remaining 6-7 classes (Street A/B/C/etc?) to contain ALL cars currently in stock. Cut classes that don’t make numbers per normal procedures in the out years. This would be much less of an impact to current competitors (incl. SP folks) and seems like a good compromise to me.

I can get onboard with something like this, this gives r comps a proper opportunity to remain for cars that they greatly benefit and sunset those that are not.

My concern about not as streetable is the 2-bar allowance, take that back absolutely no issue. I dont like how in the proposed writing, it looks possible to change ride height with a "camber" plate. Additional definition is needed there to make sure a camber plate which is installed only adjusts camber... Or caster too if so chosen. And i dont like the allowance to slot the strut towers.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by Gearhd79

I really want to thank the people involved in trying to make this sport more novice friendly and I hope these changes would make the sport grow and be more fun for all involved.
That being said, I am having a hard time trying to plan aout my CS RTR build. I guess i will just stick with my sticky Dunlops on my stock wheels and leave it at that this season until these proposed changes get figured out

This is a problem to me. This is causing you to stay away, not come play, which is the opposite of the intended effect and it's because things look unstable now.

RT used 100% stock class rules, but for tires. If they would just do that (while saving SS and hopefully AS) then you'd build your car, which is what they want, right? Maybe they should know that?!?!

[Gearhd79]

Oh im not staying away Sam, i will be at my area autocross in April. I am just not going to make any changes to my car right away. I was planning on calling you to get one of your sway bars and probably still will. I just don't have the extra cash to set up for the current rules just to buy whatever next time the rules change.

[Sam Strano]

Fwiw, if or when these new rules come into play for 'street' the bar and the shocks are still legal.

[Rougenite]

Originally Posted by Rougenite

My brand new set of RS-3s are a 200 TW....checked them again today....only two of them say it, too lazy to check the manufacture date of all 4 tires....ill do it tomorrow....

Yep quoting myself....bump :P

There is no manufacture date of the two tires labeled with a treadwear of 200, the other 2 are from october 2012 (4212) I wonder why?

Since there is no government reg on treadwear, you think they just slapped it on there? Find it odd myself, If you are looking at RS3s for stock class, Id call tirerack and see if they can get you a set of 4 that are all labeled!

[Kido1986]

I guess they went ahead and released the re-rated ones like they planned last year with the proposed 200TW for RTR for this year (find my post above for more info).

[Sam Strano]

Which is a clear example of how TW rating is a joke.

[UncleFester]

Originally Posted by Rougenite

Yep quoting myself....bump :P

There is no manufacture date of the two tires labeled with a treadwear of 200, the other 2 are from october 2012 (4212) I wonder why?

Since there is no government reg on treadwear, you think they just slapped it on there? Find it odd myself, If you are looking at RS3s for stock class, Id call tirerack and see if they can get you a set of 4 that are all labeled!

Lol, they gotta keep their market share.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

Which is a clear example of how TW rating is a joke.

It is. And while we will see less-life-than-current tires with the new rules, I dont think it will be an all out R-Comp with a 200TW. If that would have happened, ST* would have caused it by now.

Wonder if Hoosier will get into the street tire game?

[Sam Strano]

It took a long time to get to R's from real street tires. Make no mistake, it's happening faster in ST and all than it happened from 1980-2006 when the A6 came out.

Hoosier, I'm sure won't get into the street tire game, frankly they'd be silly to because there are those that are such street tire fans that they literally think Hoosier is the devil, and if Hoosier did it, they'd just ban them (even though they'd be the rules). My bet, you might see some killer Continentals.

[Sccabrz192]

Received an email this morning that my letter has been received and reviewed by the Street Prepared advisory committee and a recommendation has been passed to the SEB. Anyone else receive feedback from last night?

[Ranatsu]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

Received an email this morning that my letter has been received and reviewed by the Street Prepared advisory committee and a recommendation has been passed to the SEB. Anyone else receive feedback from last night?

What was your letter about?

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by Ranatsu

What was your letter about?

My letter is post #40 on page 2 of this thread.