..... vs. DC2 Integra Type R

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

I agree that RWD isnt always better than FWD but for performance and driving pleasure RWD is better than everything IMO (everything is subject to taste)

However saying the 86 is not a timeless car is crazy since all the stuff you mentioned is great and all but the 86 itself is a part of car culture now year from now people will look back and think of how the 86 was a great car, how it help the drift craze, initial d and of course how its spirit inspired the ft86

people will not remember those other cars and while they may have their own events and club they have had no impact on car culture other than being the ugliest mass production car ever (Aztek)

classic? maybe but not timeless. the car looks old. people will get together to celebrate any and every car if you look. jersey shore is a much bigger part of our culture than gone with the wind but i dont think we would argue which is timeless so im not quite convinced that social importance is a measure of timelessness. the car looks dated so i dont think its timeless. not like the etypes, db7s, 507s and anything pinninfarina ever touched

[4agze]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

I agree that RWD isnt always better than FWD but for performance and driving pleasure RWD is better than everything IMO (everything is subject to taste)

However saying the 86 is not a timeless car is crazy since all the stuff you mentioned is great and all but the 86 itself is a part of car culture now year from now people will look back and think of how the 86 was a great car, how it help the drift craze, initial d and of course how its spirit inspired the ft86

people will not remember those other cars and while they may have their own events and club they have had no impact on car culture other than being the ugliest mass production car ever (Aztek)

o yeah here is an article back in 2006 the 85-86 toyota corolla was part of it, i remmeber this cuz people say they should have added the Datsun 510 on the list.
http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/...feature15.html

[Dave-ROR]

I can't believe we are still having this discussion.

FWD vs RWD wasn't even the original topic.

Once I buy an FR-S/BRZ I'll compare the two objectively (driving enjoyment/feel) and by the numbers (autocross/lap times).

Like Fatoni, I won't be surprised if the ITR turns in faster times though. It's lighter, with similar HP, and likely better gearing, plus lighter wheels, etc.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I completely disagree with this.

Even at 200hp, I can put ALL my power down with my AWD while in a FWD or RWD car I'd be breaking traction with the tires.

Heck, you can have traction issues with a 90hp FWD car unless its running huge R-compounds on a perfectly dry day or something insane like that.

I have an AWD Talon, been racing it for about a decade all the way from stock weight and power to the >400whp 2600# version it is now. From my experience with my AWD Talon and RWD RX7, the AWD does not handle better than RWD at all. It is more forgiving on mistakes, but the thing about AWD that I dislike is having to "hook" the turns. If your timing isn't perfect things can go wrong. I believe the reason people think AWD handles better is because it powers out of the corners faster than the other two, but it's no where near as fun to drive as the RWD.

That is unless we're talking about Rally Car racing, I'm referring to racing on asphalt.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by chopstickz

Let's not forget that this is a pretty heavily modified NA 4age with ~175hp, however Tsuchiya's 86 is a decent amount of lbs lighter.

That's obviously not a stock ITR either.

You're best argument should be "lets not forget that you put a great white shark (tsuchiya) in his natural habitat (ae86) and set it loose against its prey."

If anything Tsuchiya's master ability of the AE86 is what makes his car fast.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

I have an AWD Talon, been racing it for about a decade all the way from stock weight and power to the >400whp 2600# version it is now. From my experience with my AWD Talon and RWD RX7, the AWD does not handle better than RWD at all. It is more forgiving on mistakes, but the thing about AWD that I dislike is having to "hook" the turns. If your timing isn't perfect things can go wrong. I believe the reason people think AWD handles better is because it powers out of the corners faster than the other two, but it's no where near as fun to drive as the RWD.

I completely left fun out of the equation. Although with the correct differential setup AWD can be surprisingly fun.

However, AWD is cheaper on the tire budget in regards to fun :p It is the safe choice of course, especially if you mostly have your fun in mountain roads.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I completely left fun out of the equation. Although with the correct differential setup AWD can be surprisingly fun.

However, AWD is cheaper on the tire budget in regards to fun :p It is the safe choice of course, especially if you mostly have your fun in mountain roads.

the awd being cheaper is a little subjective as it kinda adds weight. i bet my miata is lighter on tires when compared to an sti in relation to fun

[MrVito]

I went through rear tires on my Miata FAR faster than I did on my STi ( yes, little i, it was a 2004 ;P )

[Matador]

I'm all for rear wheel drive, but I'd take a brilliantly set up FWD (e.g. ITR, 7th gen Celica GT-S, Mini, Megane) over a poorly setup RWD car (Too numerous shitty examples to mention) any day.

I am a proponent of RWD and will tell you that in theory it is the better dynamic (for performance, hooning and enjoyment) all else being equal, but It's not fair to throw a blanket statement over the whole situation to form an absolute RWD > FWD. You ought to put an * near that statement.

As for AWD, well... that's a tricky one. It depends on your definition of handling. In most cases, a properly setup AWD car will be faster than a RWD one. Better? Depends on your perspective. IMO, most AWD cars ought to go play in the dirt and snow, but that's the way I see it. AWD cars can generate a ridiculous amount of grip, and were it allowed in the rules, even F1 cars would be AWD. Fact. Ideally, a light, mid-engined, rear wheel biased awd car would be the "best" compromise I could think of.

Faster is better, but faster isn't always "better". That statement would be lost on many, but for most here would get it, and that in fact is the reason we are registered here anyway. So IMHO, it best be that we get back to the topic at hand (ITR vs FT-86) and evaluate on merit rather than delving into yet another pointless argument. Savvy?

[blur]

NSX > Civic Type R > 350z > S2000 > Integra Type R @ tsukuba

[u2b]ncnV7A8-zKw[/u2b]

Tsuchiya can bring out the best in any car.

[SUB-FT86]

If that race was a little bit longer the Z would've win.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by blur

NSX > Civic Type R > 350z > S2000 > Integra Type R @ tsukuba

[u2b]ncnV7A8-zKw[/u2b]

Tsuchiya can bring out the best in any car.

while being super cool, in the scope of professional drivers he isnt that great

[blur]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

If that race was a little bit longer the Z would've win.

What? You really think a Z is faster than an NSX?

Not to mention the Z wouldn't even last 5 more laps... brake and tires would give out.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by blur

What? You really think a Z is faster than an NSX?

Not to mention the Z wouldn't even last 5 more laps... brake and tires would give out.

Yep. Sub thinks the Z is the best car in the world though.

I wish that Honda would have sold the Civic R here of that generation. I probably would have bought one. There's a full BMI episode about the car.