GT 86 Hybrid. Would you?

[quasi86]

I talk to prius owners everyday that swear they get over fifty. Trust me they know too. Being the sole purpose for buying the car they want to justify their purchase. Being that the Prius is always one of the highest rated vehicles on customer satisfaction I would say it absolutely delivers on the promise of superior MPG.

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[shawnperolis]

Originally Posted by quasi86

So I backed my statement with facts and real world numbers and applications and then you just rebut with your opinion. Great discussion man.

I cited sources to back my claims. You did not. I don't know where you are coming from with this.

Originally Posted by quasi86

Don't forget full electric vehicles that you plug into the wall are getting that electricity from somewhere. Most of the US is coal powered. In these states a full electric vehicle or even a vehicle like the volt, your carbon footprint is larger than if you drove a prius that burns gas and self generates electricity. Hence you would contribute to more greenhouse gases being released into the atmosphere, and without burning an ounce of gas in your car. Weird huh? :confused:

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Every source of energy has to come from somewhere, it is up to us to figure out the best way to do it. I do not believe that hybrids are the answer because they still use fossil fuels on top of their other energy sources. I do think that once we advance our technology to the point where hydrogen powered vehicles are a possibility in mainstream society that we will be in a good place.

Basically, I'm not digging the idea of a hybrid FRS unless it is purely for performance reasons and they can keep the wait down.

[jmh]

Comparing hybrids to old light cars is a bit unfair. Today's cars are much stronger and require a lot more saftey features which adds weight. What a lot of people seem to forget as well is that a prius is actually quite a large car and you can fit an unbelievable amount of stuff in them. My brother and I both loved borrowing my mums prius when she was away as getting a 1000km to a small tank was quite astonishing compared to what we were getting in our turbo sixes! While it may a stop gap technology it certainly had its place at the moment. Especially if it can be implemented to save fuel and increase performance!

[shawnperolis]

Originally Posted by jmh

Comparing hybrids to old light cars is a bit unfair. Today's cars are much stronger and require a lot more saftey features which adds weight. What a lot of people seem to forget as well is that a prius is actually quite a large car and you can fit an unbelievable amount of stuff in them. My brother and I both loved borrowing my mums prius when she was away as getting a 1000km to a small tank was quite astonishing compared to what we were getting in our turbo sixes! While it may a stop gap technology it certainly had its place at the moment. Especially if it can be implemented to save fuel and increase performance!

Stop-gap technology is really the perfect word to describe it. If they can utilize it to increase performance I might be down for it, but I'm having a hard time seeing how they will be able to keep the weight down... Those hybrid components are really heavy. Also, the price increase by adding all of that in has to be extremely large. I'm just not seeing it.

[quasi86]

So we have gone from this too......

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

Hybrids are useless because they still use petrol. They are not the way of the future, they are gimmicky and just as bad for the environment as a normal car, if not worse.

To this.....

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

Stop-gap technology is really the perfect word to describe it. If they can utilize it to increase performance I might be down for it, but I'm having a hard time seeing how they will be able to keep the weight down... Those hybrid components are really heavy. Also, the price increase by adding all of that in has to be extremely large. I'm just not seeing it.

I think we have actually made progress.

But you are still uniformed. have you ever looked under the hood of a prius? The electric motor fits right in the line with the gas engine and the Trans axle. It's a third the size of the 1.8L engine next to it. weight would be more than off-set by the gains it could produce. Producing 83hp and 153lb/ft of torque. That's just what they put in the prius. I'm sure it would be something very different if sports oriented.

I really think they could do this and have the cost be close to that of upgrading to a turbo or supercharger.

Good God this car would be beast. Would cause a lump in the throat of allot of owners of Z cars, mustangs and cameros.


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[whtchocla7e]

Hybrids are good for one reason - the more of them out there, the lesser the demand for gasoline, supposedly, and that in turn should bring the prices down for the rest of us. Tell your friends to buy a Prius..

[shawnperolis]

Originally Posted by quasi86

But you are still uniformed. How ever looked under the hood of a prius? The electric motor fits right in the line with the gas engine and the Trans axle. It's a third the size of the 1.8L engine next to it. weight would be more than off-set by the gains it could produce. Producing 83hp and 153lb/ft of torque.

Good God this car would be beast. Attach directly to the rear wheels. Would cause a lump in the throat of allot of owners of Z cars, mustangs and cameros.

I completely disagree. The gains wouldn't be worth the weight, it would ruin the car's balance. If the FRS was heavy like a Z, Mustang, or Camaro what would separate it from those cars? The whole point of the FRS is that it is lightweight and a pure driving experience. There is nothing you can do to make a heavy car feel light in the corners.

And cut the mock-intellectual downtalking, it is really getting on my nerves. You have a differing opinion than I do, no need to act like that about it.

edit: and because I see the performance advantages of the electric motor technology doesn't mean at all that I've changed my opinion. There is so much information available to show that hybrid don't save you money and that they aren't any better for the environment. The added torque from an electric motor would be nice, but adding in the entire system with batteries would be at least another 250 pounds to the car.

[quasi86]

The weight on this car is already slightly to the front. If the hybrid components are positioned behind the driver. Or if they use the skateboard style battery pack, like in a Tesla. The center of gravity could be lowered and the balance could be closer to 50/50.

Fatter tires could offset the grip required to keep a heavier car nimble in the corners right?

I remember in a Jay Leno's garage episode he turns to his guest and says, "I always get a kick outta kids when they think a sub 3000 pound car is light"

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the FR-S and it's dedication to balance and a pure diving experience but it ain't the Mona Lisa. It can be improved upon and remade into much greater things.


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[shawnperolis]

Originally Posted by quasi86

The weight on this car is already slightly to the front. If the hybrid components are positioned behind the driver. Or if they use the skateboard style battery pack, like in a Tesla. The center of gravity could be lowered and the balance could be closer to 50/50.

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Here is an interesting thread:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2992810

this guy took the hybrid stuffs out of his CRZ to replace it with a K24. The entire engine and drivetrain weighed 479lbs... The 2.4 liter k24 he was putting in weighed only 325 pounds. So about a 150 pound difference between the two... I just don't see the advantage of this compared to a turbo or supercharged setup, other than the instant torque and the uniqueness.

[quasi86]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

Here is an interesting thread:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2992810

this guy took the hybrid stuffs out of his CRZ to replace it with a K24. The entire engine and drivetrain weighed 479lbs... The 2.4 liter k24 he was putting in weighed only 325 pounds. So about a 150 pound difference between the two... I just don't see the advantage of this compared to a turbo or supercharged setup, other than the instant torque and the uniqueness.

I think you are just underestimating Toyota's expertise in this field. They are quite simply light years ahead of Honda and just about everyone else in regards to this stuffs. The gen 4 hybrid system is on the horizon and that is an area they are saying they made great strides in. Weight and size of the components.

Look the "hybrid" fr-s isn't coming out in six months. This could take years. Existing tech could be obsolete by the time they role this thing out. And the CR-Z was like so 5 years ago.


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[Wes]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

If Subaru put this EE engine... sure I'll take that GT86 diesel
147Hp w 258TQ

Oh dam that torque! needs a littld more power though

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Wes

Oh dam that torque! needs a littld more power though

HP can be made easily... TQ in other than, that's different

[20valvewynn83]

All I can say is test drive a highlander hybrid before you knock the technology. Toyota has been using hybrid technology for performance use for years.

[Kunzite]

From the article linked in the first post:
"Tada says the added weight of the system could be offset by weight reduction, while aerodynamic changes and a lower center of gravity could improve the car's handling."
I trust Tada-san to take the best decision (but not necessarily the one giving the most power ).