Stock FR-S Tune Just Done

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Is it not possible that the ECU's learning cycle put it through some crap parameters that caused it to perform badly. I very much doubt that a revised manufacturers ECU would come out with any less power, let alone that big a drop. Imagine if that made the news on such a highly publicised car!! Seeing as the Torque line starts similar then just falls off a cliff then it would suggest that during the car's lifetime poor grade fuel and/or something else that has caused the ECU to restrict power.

TBH what matters is the end result that is good!

If you look at it, the "revised" manufacturer's tune being the pink line, it is higher everywhere but top end as compared to the first batch of FR-S to hit U.S. shores, represented by the grey line. Tuner mentioned it could be that the Subaru guys got scared from the small cases of engines blowing up and ECU's going bad that they decided to cut off power sooner on the new batch. Either way you look at it, on the same dyno in everywhere but way up high in the rpm band, the newer FR-S(pink line) has higher numbers than the first FR-S to hit US (grey line)

And as I mentioned before, the car only ever gets Shell V-Power 91 Octane, and always has.

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by brzmaybe

OK, I'll bite...

Given that there's no free lunch...

Aside from the good money put down to achieve the tune, what other characteristics of the stock tune were sacrificed to enable those nice gains? That's a back-door way of wondering why Toyota didn't offer the performance tune from the factory?

Characteristics being sacrificed? None. The car is better all around. Aside from the obvious point of more power, the car actually runs much smoother. I was having the idle issue that many have before and he also managed to fix that with a couple tweaks. Steady idle now. MPG may have even slightly improved.

Keep in mind that it is NOT Toyota that tunes these cars from the factory, it is Subaru. All of our cars are made in Subaru's factory, Subaru does the factory tunes.

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

Is it possible the stock runs were not wide open throttle in the higher RPM range thus causing the curve to drop off? Or does that not even matter?

I was there for every single run, mostly because I like to be snoopy like that.

Here is another point. The ECU was FLASHED prior to every run to ensure accurate numbers. All pulls in fourth gear, and I watched every pull. Wide open throttle every time.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

If you look at it, the "revised" manufacturer's tune being the pink line, it is higher everywhere but top end as compared to the first batch of FR-S to hit U.S. shores, represented by the grey line. Tuner mentioned it could be that the Subaru guys got scared from the small cases of engines blowing up and ECU's going bad that they decided to cut off power sooner on the new batch. Either way you look at it, on the same dyno in everywhere but way up high in the rpm band, the newer FR-S(pink line) has higher numbers than the first FR-S to hit US (grey line)

And as I mentioned before, the car only ever gets Shell V-Power 91 Octane, and always has.

I have seen dyno plots from flashed cars as well as the newer "stock" Ecutek basemaps which are based off the revised ECU, they do not look like that. Thy make peak power above 6500 RPM.

In fact there is almost no power difference between any stock iteration of the ECU. Your plot looks like the throttle wasn't staying open or something.

Flashing the ECU every time is good for tuning but the ECU learning happens fairly quickly, you will see changes in power as soon as the second or third pull and it is best to capture that.

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by dwx

I have seen dyno plots from flashed cars as well as the newer "stock" Ecutek basemaps which are based off the revised ECU, they do not look like that. Thy make peak power above 6500 RPM.

In fact there is almost no power difference between any stock iteration of the ECU. Your plot looks like the throttle wasn't staying open or something.

Flashing the ECU every time is good for tuning but the ECU learning happens fairly quickly, you will see changes in power as soon as the second or third pull and it is best to capture that.

Well if you want to insist on that, go ahead. Okay, so the top end on my car prior to the tune dropped off quickly. I know it wasn't the tuner, I trust him, so who cares what it was honestly. Look at what the tune was able to accomplish, and that is what matters. What the tuner was able to do given what he had to work with was pretty outstanding in my book, and that's what I'm focusing on.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

.What the tuner was able to do given what he had to work with.

What, a stock FR-S? Its good results but no different to what I've seen other cars run. Don't forget that before you had the car that at the factory and even the dealership that your car will have been driven, possibly on lesser fuel which could have a impact on the ECU originally. As much as you gained 30hp, it is clear your car wasn't running right to start off with.

Dwx is right that the consecutive pulls will see different results. Seems strange to flash before each pull almost if they knew the following run may show a reduction in power if they didn't. I'm not saying it definitely would BTW

[acro]

Originally Posted by WatchmaN

Well I'm not gonna give away the punch of the thread I will make, But I can say that I took, Perrin tune, FA20club, and stock tune. Did runs right after the flash pass them trought virtual dyno, then did the same things 2 weeks after and the result were shocking.

I'm not a tuner to analyse why it did what it did, so tuners will be invited(PM) to comments and analyse.

ok put a link in this thread when u put it up

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

What, a stock FR-S? Its good results but no different to what I've seen other cars run. Don't forget that before you had the car that at the factory and even the dealership that your car will have been driven, possibly on lesser fuel which could have a impact on the ECU originally. As much as you gained 30hp, it is clear your car wasn't running right to start off with.

Dwx is right that the consecutive pulls will see different results. Seems strange to flash before each pull almost if they knew the following run may show a reduction in power if they didn't. I'm not saying it definitely would BTW

As far as the quotes about the car being driven at the factory, I got my car straight off the boat. It had 7 miles on the odometer when I purchased my FR-S. If you want me to scan that portion of the contract I'd be more than happy to show it as proof. As far as you arguing the car being bad to start with, there's clearly no trying to argue with you even if I don't agree, so let's leave it at agreeing to disagree.

[Jeong]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

As far as the quotes about the car being driven at the factory, I got my car straight off the boat. It had 7 miles on the odometer when I purchased my FR-S. If you want me to scan that portion of the contract I'd be more than happy to show it as proof. As far as you arguing the car being bad to start with, there's clearly no trying to argue with you even if I don't agree, so let's leave it at agreeing to disagree.

Kodeman has a point. I use ecutek and have viscontis tune. Whenever i reflash from stock to viscontis tune or vice versa, the pedal seems unresponsive and the car seems to have less power. It take a good couple of miles for the ecu to adjust again. So a flash and going straight to a dyno wouldnt yield the best results. But then again, im no tuner so i may be wrong

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

As far as the quotes about the car being driven at the factory, I got my car straight off the boat. It had 7 miles on the odometer when I purchased my FR-S. If you want me to scan that portion of the contract I'd be more than happy to show it as proof. As far as you arguing the car being bad to start with, there's clearly no trying to argue with you even if I don't agree, so let's leave it at agreeing to disagree.

There is nothing to argue. Your stock curves look wonky. That is all he is saying. As such, the "tuned" curves look overly good because the tuner has fixed the wonky'ness + added some power on top of that.

The real question is, what was causing your engine to cut so much power in the upper rpms while on stock tune.

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

Characteristics being sacrificed? None. The car is better all around. Aside from the obvious point of more power, the car actually runs much smoother. I was having the idle issue that many have before and he also managed to fix that with a couple tweaks. Steady idle now. MPG may have even slightly improved.

Keep in mind that it is NOT Toyota that tunes these cars from the factory, it is Subaru. All of our cars are made in Subaru's factory, Subaru does the factory tunes.

How do you know who does the tuning stock on these? They do have toyota ecu's and the fuel injection is Toyota. Also to the OP, the baseline isn't even your car. I don't understand how you can compare a different cars stock Dyno to your tuned Dyno. I do understand that it was done on the same Dyno, but a little consistency would be appreciated if you want to go and put this up as gains for your car.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

As far as you arguing the car being bad to start with, there's clearly no trying to argue with you even if I don't agree, so let's leave it at agreeing to disagree.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just stating what I see. Seeing as the car is designed for high octane fuel that graph is exactly what I'd expect from an ECU that has been run hard at some point on less than ideal fuel as it suffered at high RPM. Are you telling me that the car arrived at the docks and you drove it home from there? Or did you pick it up from your dealership where they would have done a PDI and filled the car with fuel for you? I'm not saying it was your fault, its likely the dealer filled up with the cheapest available.

I honestly think if your ECU had been reset before the baseline run the original graph would have looked much better. I also have no idea why you're getting so defensive? I'm not insulting the end result, it looks good and your car no longer runs like it did before. You must have seen other baseline graphs? You even posted some yourself, so you must be able to see the difference! Toyota would not be allowed to reduce the power and continue to sell it with false power claims, fact! It seems like you think I'm attacking you or your car, I'm not.

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by EZWood

How do you know who does the tuning stock on these? They do have toyota ecu's and the fuel injection is Toyota. Also to the OP, the baseline isn't even your car. I don't understand how you can compare a different cars stock Dyno to your tuned Dyno. I do understand that it was done on the same Dyno, but a little consistency would be appreciated if you want to go and put this up as gains for your car.

EZ, I included baselines of my car as well as another's from one of the first FR-S to hit the U.S., all done on the same dyno. If you looked at the graphs, you would see that the pink line, as stated in the caption, is MY car before the tune. The green line represents my car POST tune in all graphs. The GREY line is Kartboy's FR-S, done on the same dyno, several months prior. It was used purely as a comparison to what another stock FR-S puts down on the SAME dyno. As far as the stock tune being wonky, okay, let's say it was. That's not what this thread is intended to be about.

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just stating what I see. Seeing as the car is designed for high octane fuel that graph is exactly what I'd expect from an ECU that has been run hard at some point on less than ideal fuel as it suffered at high RPM. Are you telling me that the car arrived at the docks and you drove it home from there? Or did you pick it up from your dealership where they would have done a PDI and filled the car with fuel for you? I'm not saying it was your fault, its likely the dealer filled up with the cheapest available.

I honestly think if your ECU had been reset before the baseline run the original graph would have looked much better. I also have no idea why you're getting so defensive? I'm not insulting the end result, it looks good and your car no longer runs like it did before. You must have seen other baseline graphs? You even posted some yourself, so you must be able to see the difference! Toyota would not be allowed to reduce the power and continue to sell it with false power claims, fact! It seems like you think I'm attacking you or your car, I'm not.

First off, I apologize for being defensive, was a bit of a bad day at work when I posted that response. And to clarify when I got my car, it had just hit the mechanics for PDI when I got the car. I test drove it after the PDI, then bought it right there. Working at a dealership, now that I look at it, it is possible that some stupid porter (and there are many) put 87 in the car. As an employee at an Infiniti dealership, we tell everyone that uses the pump up front to only use 91 on everything, but I imagine it could be the exact opposite for a Toyota/Scion dealership, especially if they don't have a Lexus dealership attached. Kinda annoys me in the end, because things like this can be prevented easily from the get go. I remember the sales lady assuring me that they would put in 91, but it's the porter that fills the car, not her :P

And you're definitely right, what matters is that the tuner was able to fix it and still gain some on top of that!