The Valley of Death (VOD) and Top End Progress

[Coheed]

Thanks for this thread Mike. Good insight here!

[himbo]

Bump for awesome thread!

[Sargy]

Awesome

Possible to drive up there when the time is right?

[Superhatch]

Subscribed. I thought it would be hard to start another tuning thread and show any insight over what has already been posted by the other guys (hats off to them), but this thread delivers.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to give us yet another well researched, well tested, well described option for tuning. Can't wait to see your final results.

[Simmons]

Originally Posted by Sargy

Awesome

Possible to drive up there when the time is right?

Give Mike a email or call, he can hook you up.

Definetly worth the drive.

Simmons

[Outlawstar98]

I am in PA, Let me know if you need another test car Its my second car so Can be up with ya for over a week if needed

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by Outlawstar98

I am in PA, Let me know if you need another test car Its my second car so Can be up with ya for over a week if needed

The more the merrier!

Testing continues, currently playing with the E70 available. So far so good. Should be back to the dyno in the next week or two if all goes well. Current tune shows the following on the g-meter with e70:

Overall higher and more consistent. After finally getting a BRZ and really putting some miles on it, that dip bugged me even more. Buried in engineering papers the last few weeks I'm pretty confident that it is about as good as we'll get that dip with stock cams/header/intake manifold. It is mostly a cam issue, but tuning does absolutely help.

Below is a torque/HP curve of an MX-5 (2.0l port injection) vs the BRZ (early prototype tune).



Note how they are an inverse of one another. You can't have it everywhere, even with continuously variable dual VVT. Note the FA20 dip is really the up top HP. I'd have to agree subaru/toyota figured you'd be in that range the least. Either getting down low torque putting around town or all out HP on the course or track.

E85 opens up a whole slew of possibilities here. I have it set now that it is map switchable and not needing the sensor; however that route would still be more ideal. Auto-x rules don't permit it for the particular class we're worried about here, not to mention it is rather steep at the moment.

[wgnzlz]

Mike - do you have a revised tune available? If so, send it my way.

Willie

[Shit Luck]

where exactly are you guys located?
I am in york Pa and trying to find a "local" shop to work with for tuning.

[ShoNUFF]

...so basically OP is saying that all tunes claiming 20whp+ are bullsh*t?

I need to start saving for a turbo. All of this work for a few measly HP is painful to watch.

[enjoyminutemaid]

Originally Posted by ShoNUFF

...so basically OP is saying that all tunes claiming 20whp+ are bullsh*t?

I need to start saving for a turbo. All of this work for a few measly HP is painful to watch.

I don't believe that's the main point of what OP is saying. I think the most important part is that these car's take multiple data logs and reflashes, over an extended time period, to get the most consistency and maximum power.

Even with a turbo, nearly every kit out there requires a license, and practically speaking, a cable. You will still need to data log and update your flash to get the best results.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by enjoyminutemaid

I don't believe that's the main point of what OP is saying. I think the most important part is that these car's take multiple data logs and reflashes, over an extended time period, to get the most consistency and maximum power.

Even with a turbo, nearly every kit out there requires a license, and practically speaking, a cable. You will still need to data log and update your flash to get the best results.

Exactly...the first time on the dyno it looked like an easy 15+ hp across the board. But with the learning on this car it is difficult to pinpoint exact gains. Between the fine learning and the advance multiplier, the stock car starts off strong, but after a few runs and some miles the power would drop off. Initial testing then proved disappointing when compared to a freshly reset stock tune....just a few hp in the dip and up top. But further testing showed that consistency on the stock tune was terrible, and if you averaged the HP gains on the stock tune car vs the tuned car, the gains were more substantial. With ethanol I was surprised to see that today in 50 deg weather we're pulling the same g's and the car feels just as fast as in 30 deg weather. Stock car it was night and day.

In the dip and up top as you can see in the dyno (vs fresh reset stock tune) we still did good. While the stock tune would falter after a while, the performance of the tuned car would be more consistent.

As to what others do I have no idea and it is not relevant to this thread, but gearing has an effect on dynojet type dynos and you have to compare 4th to 4th 5th to 5th etc....

Having done this in the MX-5 arena for a few years the last thing I want is a customer doing a dyno and finding no gains...but what we see at times is the stock tune works good most of the time, but when you average out runs, or look at sustained performance; the tuned cars are faster.

I wish I could make public the stuff we have on the backend of the EcuTek platform (it would be giving it away...) but the featureset and map switching ability here is unprecedented.

An update for pump gas folks is in the works as well, waiting for the weather to warm up a bit to make sure we make the most of it.

In regards to the turbo/SC options--absolutely, you'll love it. The MX-5 I have is a rocket at 2450lbs and ~350whp at this point. But two different beasts. One spins the wheels at command, the other is a balanced and precise tool that needs little to no maintenance. Both are incredibly fun, but it stinks to be half way through the rev range and lose power. 10 lb/ft down low and 15 hp up top don't seem like much, but given the cost/hp and the additional features it is a bargain.

Originally Posted by Shit Luck

where exactly are you guys located?
I am in york Pa and trying to find a "local" shop to work with for tuning.

Located in Easton, PA, but we have dyno availability either out of Easton, Nazareth, and Lansdale, PA. Since so many of the customers are located quite far away, we have done remote dyno sessions via e-mail/skype from AU to EU to CT. As long as the dyno operator has WiFi we can dyno remotely by receiving the logs/plots and sending tunes. Never thought this would be possible even 5 years ago but it works!

[Shit Luck]

ok good to know...
i am almost ready for a tune so i will be looking soon.

[AllDayJonRay]

I'm well within driving distance. Currently have just a drop-in filter, and will have a catback on the way in the very near future.. If you would like a donor for some tuning, please PM me. I've got plenty of free time to come visit...