Of Curb Weights and why this car will not weigh under 2600lbs

[fatoni]

lets complain about the weight balance then complain about the weight and talk about how we can take stuff off the car to make that balance even worse and then complain how its too expensive but suggest dropping thousands of dollars on ti exhaust al suspension and forged rims.

im pretty sure the way to reduce weight on this car is gonna be the same for every car but i think skipping lunch is gonna be the cheapest in fact you probably make a couple of bucks in the process

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

But that being said, it's safe to assume that most of us weighs around 140lb right?

At my skinniest (29" waist) I still weighed 180lbs.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

But that being said, it's safe to assume that most of us weighs around 140lb right?

For a male?

I highly doubt that. I'd guess it's 170 or so.

Well according to Wiki the average American male's weight is 190.9 and average female is 164.

I know a couple of friends that are 140-150 but they are very skinny and fairly short (5'8" or so).

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by blur

So, this car has a Impreza rear subframe with double wishbone suspension? Weird.

Since 2008, Imprezas have had multi-link rear suspension.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Whole lot of structural issues when it gets hot/cold, expands/contracts, and starts vibrating, especially at the welds. Plus galvanic corrosion issues wherever it meets steel.

There are aluminum race mufflers available rather cheap, though.

Eh, steel headers meet aluminum blocks, no issues with that right? Just need a non-conducting gasket between them. Similarly insulate mounts, and it should be okay. Honestly, I can't see why a pipe with no load on it needs to be strong at all, as long as it doesn't break under its own (light) weight. That would be like saying the cheapo plastic cup holder needs to be stronger or else it'll break when you hit a bump in the road, or something like that.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

For a male?

I highly doubt that. I'd guess it's 170 or so.

Well according to Wiki the average American male's weight is 190.9 and average female is 164.

I know a couple of friends that are 140-150 but they are very skinny and fairly short (5'8" or so).

5'9'' and 150 lbs here.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Aluminum headers might be an issue because exhaust temps are well into the zone where it weakens considerably.

Weakens? Try 'melts'. 6061 melts at 1100-1200 F. An N/A engine running lean will easily put out EGTs that high. You'd blow out a hole at the first bend of an Al header.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Honestly, I can't see why a pipe with no load on it needs to be strong at all, as long as it doesn't break under its own (light) weight.

Even assuming the exhaust survives the temperatures, you seem to be missing Dimman's point. Aluminum work hardens, more so than stainless steel, and is prone to metal fatigue. When you start throwing thermal stresses (from expansion/contraction) and vibrations at welded aluminum tubes, they aren't going to last very long before cracking at the welds.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Eh, steel headers meet aluminum blocks, no issues with that right? Just need a non-conducting gasket between them. Similarly insulate mounts, and it should be okay. Honestly, I can't see why a pipe with no load on it needs to be strong at all, as long as it doesn't break under its own (light) weight. That would be like saying the cheapo plastic cup holder needs to be stronger or else it'll break when you hit a bump in the road, or something like that.

Aluminum expands and contracts a lot with temp changes. In the steel headers/aluminum head situation, the head has a lot more mass and is water-cooled. And in this case poorly made/designed headers (which expand less and are stronger at high-temp than aluminum) can crack. It's usually at the welds and mostly from vibration.

So the aluminum exhaust pipe won't be as hot as a header, but it will get hot and will expand more than for example the catalyst that it's bolted to (which is designed to keep the gas hot). Plus the exhaust is also vibrating. And aluminum welds are usually quite a bit weaker than the base metal, which is often the reverse of the steel situation.

There is a reason why aircraft still use stainless steel (usually 321 grade).

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

For a male?

I highly doubt that. I'd guess it's 170 or so.

Well according to Wiki the average American male's weight is 190.9 and average female is 164.

I know a couple of friends that are 140-150 but they are very skinny and fairly short (5'8" or so).

164 pound female is the avg weight? 190 pounds for a male? Oh yeah...in America...LOL!

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

For a male?

I highly doubt that. I'd guess it's 170 or so.

Well according to Wiki the average American male's weight is 190.9 and average female is 164.

I know a couple of friends that are 140-150 but they are very skinny and fairly short (5'8" or so).

5'8" here, not short at all, at least not for an Asian.
I'm 5'8" and 165lb.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

Wow thanks for the post I learned a lot from it. But can we actually compare two cars that is more than a decade apart? They might have found new ways to make some parts stronger without adding weight and they could have found ways to lighten some of the electrics. I know this might bot relate directly to cars but look at how much laptops have changed in the past decades they have gotten more powerful but at the same time lighter and more compact. I haven't followed Toyota or Subaru's advancement over the years in depth but they should have made some advancement right?

Well yes there is advancement in the technology. For example, the newer Subaru have a large steel bar welded into the B pillars that makes their roofs significantly stronger in rollovers. That started in 2000 with the Legacy and 2002 with the 2nd gen Impreza, but the first gen didn't have it. Supposedly the FT86 chassis will have it too.

As for comparing the cars, you'd be surprised how much has stayed the same over the years. The basic suspension and chassis design from the '93 Impreza carried over to the revision for the '02 model year all the way to '07. That means suspension components, drivetrain bits and all sorts of goodies were compatible for ALL those years.

In terms of the FT86 chassis we know of two things that will be the same: The bell housing bolt pattern and the engine mount bolt pattern. The FA20 has the same shortblock supposedly as the new FB20 Subaru motors, which means its got the same bellhousing pattern, which was also the same as the EJ motor bolt pattern allowing you to use EJ motors in this car if you wish. The engine mounts have been stated on many occasions to be in the same location for this car so you can use other motors if you wish.

But in terms of the actual chassis design, there are some photos of the cutaway of the chassis in that leaked brochure but they are too small to see Hopefully soon we will get a high-res image of that to get a better look at the chassis and see what was exactly done with it.

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

They can call it a "world car" all they want, but there is tons of evidence to show that the U.S. version of cars always have differences from the international versions. Different regulations and crash test requirements make companies redesign certain aspects and in some cases exclude cars from being imported here. There's a reason that the highly efficient cars in Europe are only slowly starting to make their way to this side of the pond, and it's not because people hate getting good gas mileage.

Yes, there will always be minor differences. For example, the 2012 Impreza has a rear foglight hole but the foglight is only sold on European models and not in the US. The bumper remains the same minus a plug in the hole.

The truth is lately European standards have gotten tougher than U.S. standards in most categories which has influenced bumper design quite a bit. So we won't be seeing as many cars in the future with multiple different bumper skins/bumper beams for different markets, I don't think the FRS or BRZ will have different bumpers.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

The basic suspension and chassis design from the '93 Impreza carried over to the revision for the '02 model year all the way to '07. That means suspension components, drivetrain bits and all sorts of goodies were compatible for ALL those years.

This is only partly true. The '02-'07 sedans had a wider track with longer control arms and more kingpin angle. The GC/GF/GM had the same suspension geometry as the '02-'07 wagon (GG). So if you were to put GD control arms on a GC/GF/GM/GG you got a crap ton of negative camber, or in the case of struts you ended up with no camber at all.

[Ikaros]

Lol, my bad I was using Japan's BMI for normal people, which is 18.5-22.9, so 20.7 compared to the US which is 21.75. And use my own height which is 5'9''.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

11.x" rotors will be multiple pounds heavier than small 93 impress rotors. Probably 4-5 more not including the larger calipers and rear brakes. And early 90s abs pumps were heavy. The one from the 96 integer rcecar was 20-25lbs by itself. Extra lines were light but then add bs computer sensors and wiring...

that sucks my 2000 gts abs system was about as big as my fist and didn't weigh anything....