Scion FR-S vs Mazda MX-5 Club Head-to-Head (Review and Video)

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

The twin ARE mechanically the same, you cannot argue that. The springs rates the the ONLY variance and it is a difference of 50-70 +- (max) LBS making the difference very very very slim. Noticeable to an experience driver at the while pushing limits, which you (and I mean you specificity) probably wont ever do at a race track or have ever experienced.

What I originally posted is in direct AGREEMENT with what Randy, your lover, would say.. I do not disagree with Mr. Randy nor was that even the point of my post. Way to get off topic by lack of comprehension. You are arguing a point that I never bough up, that I agree with.



Again you bringing him up, his racing career, and his success with driving a BRZ better is invalid (and strange) and makes no argument or sense. The BRZ is more stable for him at higher speed. The 86 may be faster for some one who likes to kick out more around a turn. The difference in the springs rates is so small that its a CHARACTER change, not a true upgraded difference.

Someone had mentioned that the BRZ is equivalent to the Club Miata over what the 86 is to the base Miata in a performance stand point.... However that is incorrect. The club Miata has about a dozen ACTUAL upgrades over the base Miata.

The twins however are Mechanically the same (difference that small in spring rates is not an upgrade and is the ONLY difference), and one would not truly perform better over the other. Simply they would have a slight difference in characteristic with turn in.... A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE while at the limits of grip. Hence my use of the phrase, “drivers preference”.

The performance difference between the base Miata and Club Miata would ABSOLUTELY be noticeable and not arguable.





I never mentioned anything about “numbers”.




The springs and shocks are replaced on the Base model of the Miata with a Bilsten shock and spring setup for the Club Miata.... THAT IS A HUGE ADVANTAGE over the Base model Miata shocks and springs. Thats not considering the FAR better rubber Mazda used on the Club over the base Miata. Clear advantage between the two models Club and Base. There is no clear advantage between the BRZ and 86.


You sir have taking my comparison of the BRZ springs to the 86's out of context because there is no true advantave of one over the other as I have explained in greater detail already.

THE POINT TO MY ORIGINAL POST (Try not to miss comprehend again): The Miata they tested against the 86 is not a standard Miata and a slightly unfair comparison due to the Miata having far more sophisticated upgraded items over the standard Miata. It would have made more sense to have been a comparison with a base Miata and a base 86.

If the 86's had a "Club" version like the Miata with upgraded shock and springs, much better tires, additional structural support braces, ect... This comparison would be totally different.


PS. My incorrect auto correct spelling on my phone doesn’t make me less correct.


It is safe to amuse that neither of you have real track experience, and simply haven’t ever really pushed a car at their true limits while testing multiple suspension rates and shock valve setting. Or, you both just completely understood me wrong.


I find it funny that I come to the defense of the Twins on the Twins forum, to only have Twin forum members argue with me about nonsense and completely miss the point HA.

why are you so persistent in saying the comparison should be done with the base miata (or the club against an upgraded frs) when its obvious that these are the cars to compare? so what if the club has minor upgrades over the base model? that has no bearing on how it compares with the frs. if you really think it makes more sense to use the miata without an lsd or six speed transmissions and costs thousands less in order to have a "fair" comparison with the frs but forgive me if i dont think you can make a convicning argument for your case.

the "upgraded" shocks are a joke if you know anything about miatas and there is nothing "far more sophisticated" about the club. my comprehension isnt the problem, i simply dont agree with your premise.

i have a little track experience but i seriously doubt there are more than five people on this forum who have done actual testing on multiple suspension rates.

[TouchMyHonda]

Originally Posted by fatoni

why are you so persistent in saying the comparison should be done with the base miata (or the club against an upgraded frs) when its obvious that these are the cars to compare? so what if the club has minor upgrades over the base model? that has no bearing on how it compares with the frs. if you really think it makes more sense to use the miata without an lsd or six speed transmissions and costs thousands less in order to have a "fair" comparison with the frs but forgive me if i dont think you can make a convicning argument for your case.

the "upgraded" shocks are a joke if you know anything about miatas and there is nothing "far more sophisticated" about the club. my comprehension isnt the problem, i simply dont agree with your premise.

i have a little track experience but i seriously doubt there are more than five people on this forum who have done actual testing on multiple suspension rates.

Lol I just stated my opinion and you went all off topic on me. I was just simply stating my thoughts, I felt the need to clearify after you picked apart my words.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

The twin ARE mechanically the same, you cannot argue that. The springs rates the the ONLY variance and it is a difference of 50-70 +- (max) LBS making the difference very very very slim. Noticeable to an experience driver at the while pushing limits, which you (and I mean you specificity) probably wont ever do at a race track or have ever experienced.

What I originally posted is in direct AGREEMENT with what Randy, your lover, would say.. I do not disagree with Mr. Randy nor was that even the point of my post. Way to get off topic by lack of comprehension. You are arguing a point that I never bough up, that I agree with.



Again you bringing him up, his racing career, and his success with driving a BRZ better is invalid (and strange) and makes no argument or sense. The BRZ is more stable for him at higher speed. The 86 may be faster for some one who likes to kick out more around a turn. The difference in the springs rates is so small that its a CHARACTER change, not a true upgraded difference.

Someone had mentioned that the BRZ is equivalent to the Club Miata over what the 86 is to the base Miata in a performance stand point.... However that is incorrect. The club Miata has about a dozen ACTUAL upgrades over the base Miata.

The twins however are Mechanically the same (difference that small in spring rates is not an upgrade and is the ONLY difference), and one would not truly perform better over the other. Simply they would have a slight difference in characteristic with turn in.... A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE while at the limits of grip. Hence my use of the phrase, “drivers preference”.

Why would anyone with a brain value the opinion of a forum blowhard above that of someone with a top professional racing career who has carefully tested the cars on track - not to mention the cadre of reviewers who have also found a difference, even if it is relatively small? Certainly not me. It's common knowledge (contrary to your opinion) that the fastest way around a track never involves "kicking out more" around a turn - sliding just loses you too much exit speed.Your credibility on this is zip, nada.

[neurokinetik]

Originally Posted by red_comet

Speaking of which, when the hell is Mazda gonna come out with a cylinder-powered, hardtop 4 seat sports car? MX-7, anyone? It'd be le best. Stop missing the bus, Mazda.

If they did, I would be driving one right now, and not the FR-S. The rotary was the only thing stopping me from buying an RX-8. I test drove one at an auto-x, and it would have been the no-brainer choice if it had the engine from the Mazdaspeed 3 in it. I just couldn't stomach the thought of 16MPG, especially if my commute ever happened to get long again.

OTOH, how'd they get an MX-5 with "sticky" summer tires and Bilstein shocks to only put down numbers like .69G on the skid pad, even worse than the Prius-tired FR-S?

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by neurokinetik

If they did, I would be driving one right now, and not the FR-S. The rotary was the only thing stopping me from buying an RX-8. I test drove one at an auto-x, and it would have been the no-brainer choice if it had the engine from the Mazdaspeed 3 in it. I just couldn't stomach the thought of 16MPG, especially if my commute ever happened to get long again.

OTOH, how'd they get an MX-5 with "sticky" summer tires and Bilstein shocks to only put down numbers like .69G on the skid pad, even worse than the Prius-tired FR-S?

16MPG and an engine that floods after a cold stop.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by neurokinetik

If they did, I would be driving one right now, and not the FR-S. The rotary was the only thing stopping me from buying an RX-8. I test drove one at an auto-x, and it would have been the no-brainer choice if it had the engine from the Mazdaspeed 3 in it. I just couldn't stomach the thought of 16MPG, especially if my commute ever happened to get long again.

OTOH, how'd they get an MX-5 with "sticky" summer tires and Bilstein shocks to only put down numbers like .69G on the skid pad, even worse than the Prius-tired FR-S?

because the suspension on the miata is still very soft from the factory and that causes the miata to take longer to settle into the corners which is a bad thing for a figure 8 test. the frs was built for things like this test.

[BlueFlag]

The "sports" suspension package on the Miata is notoriously disappointing (but it gets you a limited slip diff). Not sure of the rubber, but if they run the same tires on the Club as they do on the other Miata with 17s, there is a good chance that they are run-flat Bridgestones. I ran those before and while they are a summer tire, sticky is not a word I would use to describe them.

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by BlueFlag

The "sports" suspension package on the Miata is notoriously disappointing (but it gets you a limited slip diff). Not sure of the rubber, but if they run the same tires on the Club as they do on the other Miata with 17s, there is a good chance that they are run-flat Bridgestones. I ran those before and while they are a summer tire, sticky is not a word I would use to describe them.

"Sticky" like our Primacy HP "summer" tires.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by SubaruBRZLimited

What if I like marine life, like the Manta Ray? The Manta Ray also has a very deadly tail, Steve Irwin found that out the hard way. Sad to say but most cars have a cartoony grin these days. If only the parking lights' color could be changed my BRZ might look evil at night.

Manta Ray =/ Sting Ray. Two completely different fish. Steve Irwin was stabbed in the heart by a Sting Ray. Personally, I've been stabbed in the foot by one. It's very painful. Manta ray has no venom or barbs.

Oh, and someone was asking if S2000 forums talk about the twins much. Oh yes...you better believe they do. Several threads dedicated to the FT86, one at least 20 pages long I believe...

[Captain Insano]

That was me asking... thank you sir

[joop1987]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Randy Pobst (and many others) would disagree with you - BRZ has more overall neutrality vs. tail-happy FR-S.

If you want a car that plows on turns, get a FWD car. RWD cars are suposed to be tail happy.

Jeremy clarkson likes the FR-S better (because he flipped a coin).

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Manta Ray =/ Sting Ray. Two completely different fish. Steve Irwin was stabbed in the heart by a Sting Ray. Personally, I've been stabbed in the foot by one. It's very painful. Manta ray has no venom or barbs.

Oh, and someone was asking if S2000 forums talk about the twins much. Oh yes...you better believe they do. Several threads dedicated to the FT86, one at least 20 pages long I believe...

Fair enough. It sounds like the S2000 crowd is worried the our cars will beat their cars.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by joop1987

If you want a car that plows on turns, get a FWD car. RWD cars are suposed to be tail happy.

Jeremy clarkson likes the FR-S better (because he flipped a coin).

He decided it with eeny meeny miney mo, which is loaded anyway.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by joop1987

If you want a car that plows on turns, get a FWD car. RWD cars are suposed to be tail happy.

Jeremy clarkson likes the FR-S better (because he flipped a coin).

both front and rear wheel drive plow through turns