Sealing And Deadening the Doors

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by Z3D

FYI people looking for sound insulation while keeping weight down, Walmart has some good foam for this. Also, you cant beat the price!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/5-Zone-2-C...opper/15581041

http://www.walmart.com/ip/FASTTRACK-...opper/15581050

Ha, you scared me. I was waiting to see peelnseal when I clicked it. But ya I could see that working fine between the deadener and door panel.

[slizoth]

This is excellent information, I just got my shipment of Second Skin Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro. I'm not as concerned with adding a bit of weight so much as quiting down the road noise and clearing up some of that mud you're talking about. The one thing I didn't get that now Im thinking about is the speaker tweaker. Im planning on tackling the doors this Sunday or at least one of them.

I need to pickup one of those plastic pry tools too, excited to get into it and if you do the wheel wells let me know, that's on my list as well.

[Shankenstein]

Originally Posted by Z3D

FYI people looking for sound insulation while keeping weight down, Walmart has some good foam for this. Also, you cant beat the price!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/5-Zone-2-C...opper/15581041

http://www.walmart.com/ip/FASTTRACK-...opper/15581050

I'm a big fan of budget alternatives, and these foams will work just fine.

One caveat:
Alot of memory foams are open-cell. As the name suggests, open cell foams are porous. If you cram lots of it in your doors, and the window seal is displaced by a few microns... you'll get water in your doors. This water will soak into the foam and stay there. Not only would that be heavy, it could get moldy.

That's the reason most sites advertise closed cell foam as the best way to isolate rattling panels.

[slizoth]

Originally Posted by WolfSongX

The first step is to remove the factory plastic sealant. Obviously this is the best time of the year to attempt this because typically there is a nasty bit of cleanup due to how messy this sealant is. But at this time of year, with the cooler temps, I was able to get this all off with a minimum of mess.

Removing and resealing this is a growing concern for me, if it's done incorrectly does water or condensation get in the cabin?

[western_seraph]

Originally Posted by slizoth

Removing and resealing this is a growing concern for me, if it's done incorrectly does water or condensation get in the cabin?

I have been told by door design people the service hole cover or "garbage bag" is actually there to protect against water intrusion.
-- I can't speak specifically on this vehicle but I would be a little hesitant on completely removing it since I live in a place that has a lot of water.

I like the pond liner type material under the garbage bag to cover up the giant holes I bet you could notice a huge difference just from covering these up--I would probably reapply the service hole cover and seal it back up with tape since the butyl does not always stick once it is pulled down.

If you are worried about possible wetness inside the vehicle you could copy the service hole cover layout and make panels from Shoddy (recycled fibers) and pond liner (buy at home depot). You can cut them to fit just like the service hole cover does and then tape the shoddy and pond liner together with the pond liner touching the door panel and then tape it to the sheet metal.
You could pick out different materials or chose a different layout depending on your overall goal.
Here is an article on some acoustic materials
http://www.roush.com/Portals/1/Downl...dAbsorbing.pdf

[michaelahess]

Originally Posted by western_seraph

I have been told by door design people the service hole cover or "garbage bag" is actually there to protect against water intrusion.
-- I can't speak specifically on this vehicle but I would be a little hesitant on completely removing it since I live in a place that has a lot of water.

I like the pond liner type material under the garbage bag to cover up the giant holes I bet you could notice a huge difference just from covering these up--I would probably reapply the service hole cover and seal it back up with tape since the butyl does not always stick once it is pulled down.

If you are worried about possible wetness inside the vehicle you could copy the service hole cover layout and make panels from Shoddy (recycled fibers) and pond liner (buy at home depot). You can cut them to fit just like the service hole cover does and then tape the shoddy and pond liner together with the pond liner touching the door panel and then tape it to the sheet metal.
You could pick out different materials or chose a different layout depending on your overall goal.
Here is an article on some acoustic materials
http://www.roush.com/Portals/1/Downl...dAbsorbing.pdf

I know it was overkill, but on my car, CLD covered the entire area the plastic. Problem solved! Used little bits of CLD to cover behind and over all the things that had to come through. Sealed up nicely.

[WolfSongX]

Originally Posted by Skippman

WolfSongX,

What do you think of RAAMMat? I'm debating on getting their Package #2 and doing the doors much the same way you've done yours and using the rest to do the rear deck, trunk lid, and trunk floor. I'm planning to combine that with a set of Speaker Tweekers in the doors much like you've done.

RAAM Mat is good stuff. I can say nothing bad about their products and the guys from RAAM Audio have been sharing good knowledge on the Internet on various car forums for years.

At the time I got serious with car audio, Second Skin had launched a lot of sound deadening products and I was very impressed with the research and development they'd done, and I have stuck to their products ever since.

I could have just as easily went with RAAM Audio products, but I've already worked with Second Skin products and was very satisfied with them.

[WolfSongX]

Just noticed the double post so I'll answer another question that was posed by Slizoth on how well sealed the door would be to moisture.

I actually did a better job of resealing the car from the factory... the garbage bag trim does have holes and slits for the cables and various wiring looms to come out and isn't a great seal. If you take a look at this picture you will see that there are several slits that are used to pass the wiring and door cables through at points.


I addressed every single hole that was in the door either by covering it up with Damplifier or by using plastic sign board covered with Damplifier and the tape to seal it.

The only holes I did not plug were the holes for the plastic panels to clip back into. Each of the clips has a thin rubber washer on it and so they seal tightly on their own (and prevent the door panel from rattling as well).

Don't forget that the Overkill Pro is closed cell foam, and is a waterproof barrier in itself, and we're talking vertical surfaces here, so they will not have issues with water pooling and seeping through.

The door seals were an ucky mess... so I didn't keep them around... so unfortunately I won't be able to take any additional pics of them.

[tripjammer]

Nobody uses dynamat anymore?

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Nobody uses dynamat anymore?

Plenty of people do, any butyl based mat is pretty much the same in the end. its like debating the best brand of quaility motor oil. Just opinion and brand favor. Thats why Ive always said just stay away from ashpalt based mat, even more so if you live in the south, and you will be fine.

[slizoth]

Originally Posted by WolfSongX

At this point, it's the easiest place to install the Second Skin Speaker Tweakers. They go behind the driver in the door and break up the back wave created by the speaker. They attach with super glue gel and there's a potential here to make a HUGE MESS and damage your paint... which I learned the hard way on my Si... Fortunately I didn't make the same mistakes as before but you literally have to put the whole tube of super glue gel on the back, then hold it into position while it bonds. I always try to have some Damplifer underneath of it to give it a good surface to bond to. They're flexible so I let the end fold at the door beam.

After reading this whole article, specifically this part I decided it was worth ordering a set of speaker tweakers. Being the idiot that I am, I didn't realize they come in pairs so now I've got two extra, doh! Secondly, I assumed they came with an adhesive but they didnt so... I have some Guerrilla Glue that should work well right? Finally, just want to confirm I have the procedure right...

Apply Damplifer
Place Guerrilla Glue on Damplifier Aluminum
Stick the flat side down on the Guerrilla Glue and hold? Ridges face the interior slash back of the door speaker?

[xjohnx]

got some damplifier pro on the way, going to do the trunk floors/lid, rear quarter panels, rear seats/cabin floor and doors.

I may end up going with a layer of their luxury liner pro over the cabin floor if i really want to quiet things down.

[WolfSongX]

Originally Posted by slizoth

After reading this whole article, specifically this part I decided it was worth ordering a set of speaker tweakers. Being the idiot that I am, I didn't realize they come in pairs so now I've got two extra, doh! Secondly, I assumed they came with an adhesive but they didnt so... I have some Guerrilla Glue that should work well right? Finally, just want to confirm I have the procedure right...

Apply Damplifer
Place Guerrilla Glue on Damplifier Aluminum
Stick the flat side down on the Guerrilla Glue and hold? Ridges face the interior slash back of the door speaker?

Sorry, just got back and read this question.

The Speaker tweakers used to ship with cyanoacrylate gel (super glue gel) which is basically thick and globby and will form a permanent attachment. I'm not sure of the composition of Guerrilla Glue, but if it's an permanent glue that bonds at the molecular level like super glue then it should be fine.

When I installed it... I put a piece of Damplifier on underneath so that had a surface to bond to. Then I put the cyanoacrylate gel on the flat back of the Speaker Tweaker and then slipped it inside and held it in place for about a minute. Ridge side goes out and behind the speaker, and you will have to fold one edge around the door beam to fit in directly.

When I did my Civic... I actually used Damplifier and glued clumps of closed cell foam to build up a platform on either side of the door beam so the Speaker Tweaker fit flat, but I figured that there was little benefit because all it is supposed to do is break up the back wave off the speaker and it didn't need to stay flat to do it.

I'm pretty sure someone will buy the extra set of Speaker Tweakers off you, or you could install them behind the rear speakers if you wind up replacing them.

[WolfSongX]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Nobody uses dynamat anymore?

Regular Dynamat is asphalt based mass loader... I believe Dynamat Pro is the CLD version.

Dynamat was one of the bigger names in the business back when I started, but various cottage industries were starting up and offering their sound deadening products as an alternative, companies like Second Skin and RAAM Audio, and they were offering a better product for a better price and their owners were out posting on forums offering their knowledge and experience and answering a lot of newbie questions.

Now these companies are more established, and the lines have blurred a little between them, but they're still good resources and the product might be a little more pricey, but they've managed to carve a niche market.

I do believe in brand loyalty, and when someone makes something that I know works and that I like and can count on 100%, I'll come back to them first, even if it's no longer the cheapest option. I know that I can send an email to Ant, the owner of Second Skin, with a question or problem, and that he'll address it right away. I know if I come back to them, then there's a good chance they'll still be around the next time I need something.

Sorry about the soap box... but that's why I buy what I buy.