RTR smackdown! - Page 3 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Kido1986 · 02-20-2013, 10:26 AM

Hotchkis on the soft setting.

On the street though, using crappy Prius tires, the Hotchkis is absolutely amazing. Just feels slightly too much bar around the cones, particular trying to get through a decreasing radius turn.

des · 02-20-2013, 12:57 PM

Just because it's so cool: Slo-mo video of Lugod's run in my car.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKkafIOi3uw"]LuGOD driving Des's RTR FRS. - YouTube[/ame]

Sam Strano · 02-20-2013, 02:38 PM

I have to chime in, and yes I'm a bit biased, but I also sell all the brands of bars mentioned (Eibach, Hotchkis, Strano, Whiteline) so if you disagree or want to try something other than mine, that's ok. I can hook you up with those too.

I don't know how on earth anyone could think a 25mm bar isn't too much when teamed with a stock rear bar. You increased the front a massive amount on a car that isn't prone to doing huge donuts at any provocation. Remember that both Hotchkis and Eibach (and Whiteline) all have bigger rear bars that "go with" those bigger front bars. Personally, given the fact it's not all that hard turning in and out of driveways and such to pull the inside rear off the ground, I don't think a bigger rear bar is all that wise. Also I will admit I was shooting for a bar that works for both CS/RT and ST instead of having a lot of different bars.

It seems pretty clear to me that those with the bigger bars at best are reporting things like it's ok, but the car is just a little too tight... all the way to it's ok here but really pushy on higher grip surfaces. Well, yeah... that's pretty much what I suspected all along and why my bar isn't that big.

Remember, I own an FR-S. To be honest, I don't love it. I bought it to learn about it's dynamics and apply them to setup and development of products and setups. I didn't just take a wild ass guess.

And I should add that I am at times very much a fan of big front bars on some cars. In fact my Corvette came stock with a hollow 31mm. I have had 31.75, 33.3 hollow and solid, 35 hollow and solid, and even a 38.1mm hollow on the cars. The 38, too much. The GS likes a solid 35, the Z06 was best on a hollow 33.

I won't just run X bar because I'm married to the idea. I will do what it takes. I think the 25 is too much, and I think the comments here show that.

MHO.

BTW.... Remember I drive a lot of different cars with a lot of different drivers. Many tend to overdrive (even some on this forum) which makes the cars understeer more, then tend to snap oversteer. If you do overdrive the last thing you want is a bigger front bar that makes the front give up sooner when you overload it. Though that same bar can help on the other side when the front finally bites (if it ever does) and the car wants to snap. Thing is, you've already lost buckets of time.

Balance matters.

Sam Strano · 02-20-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwx

I have both the 20/21mm whiteline and the strano bar, from my butt it feels like the Strano is in between the two settings on that bar.

Yep, that's what I was shooting for....

blkwrxwag · 02-20-2013, 03:11 PM

I had such legends as Peters, Yom and Motonishi drive my BRZ on the Strano bar at El Toro which has a very similar surface to Nats. Whilst there were some complaints about the dreaded torque dip, they all lauded the handling and balance of the car. Motonishi even described it as magical.

JeffHNY · 02-20-2013, 06:09 PM

What some may not realize is that the sway bar mounting point differs between a brz/frs and wrx. The brz/frs being mounted directly to the strut gives it a much higher efficiency having a motion ratio of .9x to 1. The wrx bar is mounted to the control arm. Based on nasioc posts has a motion ratio in the .5x to 1 range. Leads to big difference when it comes to forces generated at the wheel.

The Hotchkis and Eibach bars are definitely matched products for their respective rear bars and possibly spring packages.

simpleisbest · 02-20-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

I don't know how on earth anyone could think a 25mm bar isn't too much when teamed with a stock rear bar.

Dang! I think I just got slammed by Sam?!

Curiously I somehow feel honored! LMAO!!!

But seriously, I am not defending or advocating the Hotchkis bar. I think its a bit too stiff, but as I got it in the arsenal, I want to play things out to see how much more handling I can squeeze out of it before eventually trying something else. I got an open mind about these things and don't have any allegiance to a sway bar brand.

02-20-2013, 12:57 PM	#30
des Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: FR-S Location: Portland Posts: 131 Thanks: 33 Thanked 78 Times in 38 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s)	Just because it's so cool: Slo-mo video of Lugod's run in my car. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKkafIOi3uw"]LuGOD driving Des's RTR FRS. - YouTube[/ame]

02-20-2013, 02:38 PM	#31
Sam Strano Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Asphalt Location: Brookville PA Posts: 345 Thanks: 1 Thanked 223 Times in 108 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s)	I have to chime in, and yes I'm a bit biased, but I also sell all the brands of bars mentioned (Eibach, Hotchkis, Strano, Whiteline) so if you disagree or want to try something other than mine, that's ok. I can hook you up with those too. I don't know how on earth anyone could think a 25mm bar isn't too much when teamed with a stock rear bar. You increased the front a massive amount on a car that isn't prone to doing huge donuts at any provocation. Remember that both Hotchkis and Eibach (and Whiteline) all have bigger rear bars that "go with" those bigger front bars. Personally, given the fact it's not all that hard turning in and out of driveways and such to pull the inside rear off the ground, I don't think a bigger rear bar is all that wise. Also I will admit I was shooting for a bar that works for both CS/RT and ST instead of having a lot of different bars. It seems pretty clear to me that those with the bigger bars at best are reporting things like it's ok, but the car is just a little too tight... all the way to it's ok here but really pushy on higher grip surfaces. Well, yeah... that's pretty much what I suspected all along and why my bar isn't that big. Remember, I own an FR-S. To be honest, I don't love it. I bought it to learn about it's dynamics and apply them to setup and development of products and setups. I didn't just take a wild ass guess. And I should add that I am at times very much a fan of big front bars on some cars. In fact my Corvette came stock with a hollow 31mm. I have had 31.75, 33.3 hollow and solid, 35 hollow and solid, and even a 38.1mm hollow on the cars. The 38, too much. The GS likes a solid 35, the Z06 was best on a hollow 33. I won't just run X bar because I'm married to the idea. I will do what it takes. I think the 25 is too much, and I think the comments here show that. MHO. BTW.... Remember I drive a lot of different cars with a lot of different drivers. Many tend to overdrive (even some on this forum) which makes the cars understeer more, then tend to snap oversteer. If you do overdrive the last thing you want is a bigger front bar that makes the front give up sooner when you overload it. Though that same bar can help on the other side when the front finally bites (if it ever does) and the car wants to snap. Thing is, you've already lost buckets of time. Balance matters.

02-20-2013, 03:11 PM	#33
blkwrxwag Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: DS FRS Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 18 Thanked 211 Times in 133 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s)	I had such legends as Peters, Yom and Motonishi drive my BRZ on the Strano bar at El Toro which has a very similar surface to Nats. Whilst there were some complaints about the dreaded torque dip, they all lauded the handling and balance of the car. Motonishi even described it as magical.

02-20-2013, 06:09 PM	#34
JeffHNY Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: Vroom Vroom Location: LI Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s)	What some may not realize is that the sway bar mounting point differs between a brz/frs and wrx. The brz/frs being mounted directly to the strut gives it a much higher efficiency having a motion ratio of .9x to 1. The wrx bar is mounted to the control arm. Based on nasioc posts has a motion ratio in the .5x to 1 range. Leads to big difference when it comes to forces generated at the wheel. The Hotchkis and Eibach bars are definitely matched products for their respective rear bars and possibly spring packages.

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