We Ask Toyota & Subaru about James May's Claim that Toyota Gets 90% of GT 86/FR-S/BRZ

[HotLava]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

This discussion isn't about opinion or who thinks what, the facts are the facts. Toyota designed it, Subaru built it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know how2car.

Read the FR-S story PDF. That's where the facts are.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

You're kinda right in the sense that Toyota needed Subaru's engine, and chassis, suspension, and brakes ect. But if Subaru had backed out Toyota would still have gone through with the project. It may have taken them a bit longer and costed them more, but Subaru was still going to supply Toyota with its engine.

Fixed. Both companies played critical roles in this specific car.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

So, what does this mean:
"Any "hardcore subby" would take one look at the car and know it's a Subaru right down to the core."?

What is "core"?

It means the engineering mentality of the car is very much Subaru-driven. The car is built on a modified Legacy platform.

Originally Posted by HotLava

Read the FR-S story PDF. That's where the facts are.

Except that document is nothing more than marketing drivel and contains very little factual information about the cars' development cycle. As several people have already said: Toyota designed it. Subaru built it. The car wouldn't exist without either's contributions.

[HotLava]

Don't worry. Once the car is no longer "hot", Toyota will offer Subaru all the production they want.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by dem00n

I think your the first "hard core" Subaru guy who said the twins look like a Subaru.

The cars don't look like anything Toyata or Subaru has made before, you can tell its a big mix of ideas. Even some of engine parts aren't really Subaru committed.

But in the end, it really doesn't matter who did more or who did less. Both these brands needed an image uplifting (Scion too!) and these two cars are most defiantly helping.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Vlrtj8oI4"]Designing the Toyota GT86: 2000GT Heritage - Video Exclusive (Part 1/4) - YouTube[/ame]

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

And most of the cars there were directly influenced from what cars?
Oh, thought it had the other cars.

But the 2000GT was a rip off of all greats before it, just look at it!



Its a circle.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

They wouldn't have been able to build it since all of their production capability was already earmarked for other cars. That's why the smaller of the two companies is assembling them. Toyota's BoD wouldn't have pulled back production on a known profitable product to make an unproven niche car.

they did for the LFA. speaking of the LFA they could just used the factory that built the LFA no? production has ended so that factory isn't being used.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Fixed. Both companies played critical roles in this specific car.

yes we all know that both companies played a role to bring the 86/frs and brz to life. the point people are trying to make is that this car would have been built with or without subaru, but without would probably had taken longer.

[HotLava]

Originally Posted by gymratter

yes we all know that both companies played a role to bring the 86/frs and brz to life. the point people are trying to make is that this car would have been built with or without subaru, but without would probably had taken longer.

I do remember Mr. Toyoda stating in an interview that Toyota's board has to have their fingers in the pie of every car that's approved for production, like the GM board does. Having Subaru handle a lot of the engineering was probably a smart way to neutralize a dumb board. After all, you guys do know that Toyota's board picked the American design of the FR-S, don't you? Mr. Toyoda then gave Tada the authority to pick what design he wanted, and he went with the design dreamed up in Japan, and that's the beautiful car we now have. Nothing worse than a board of directors picking a car design . . .

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by gymratter

they did for the LFA. speaking of the LFA they could just used the factory that built the LFA no? production has ended so that factory isn't being used.

Then color me shocked. But then, the philosophy behind the LFA is way different from the GT86.

As for the LFA's production facility, I believe the GT86 went into production before the LFA left production. But we're also discussing a hypothetical "what if there was no Subaru" situation...

[gymratter]

either way im glad toyota did the styling. subaru has been known to make some pretty ugly looking cars and suvs.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by gymratter

yes we all know that both companies played a role to bring the 86/frs and brz to life. the point people are trying to make is that this car would have been built with or without subaru, but without would probably had taken longer.

Opposite of my point, the car that exists now would not be the same as if it were a fully toyota product(not better or worse). That accounts for pros and cons of the model.

We have this car thanks to their partnership, you would have another car if it were built any differently.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Opposite of my point, the car that exists now would not be the same as if it were a fully toyota product(not better or worse). That accounts for pros and cons of the model.

We have this car thanks to their partnership, you would have another car if it were built any differently.

i agreed with you. it might have still looked the same or at least very similar on the outside, but would most likely used different chassis and suspensions.

[brzadrian]

toyota was the money and the idea and the fuel injectors and they also own part of the company that owns subaru so there u have it
but there is a video out there where they show the subaru engineers where they basically take the wrx and modify it they lower the engine and push it inside the cabin and they had to redesign the boxer engine because it wouldnt fit so thats why there is a new line of boxer engines so id say its a 50/50 to be fair because without subaru this car wouldn't handle like it does it wouldn't have the low center of gravity and Im glad toyota stepped in with the modeling of the car because jesus some subarus are pretty boxy and ugly, im not saying that toyotas are pretty, but these twins really came out of no where it seems