Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by sierra

I think it's more likely to be the ECU adjusting to the changes.
My car certainly improved steadily over the first 1000km and then I decided to re-set it to see what would happen. It felt flat again, with some hesitation to the throttle and is gradually improving. I read somewhere it learns and adjusts to changes without being re-set and that it takes some time to optimise those changes.

That same process might slowly eat away at some of the changes that were flashed into it?

nothing really slow about this though, these runs are back to back from what i understand.

[johnbradley]

Originally Posted by Calum

AVO posted a while ago about having trouble with the cam phasing sticking. Any chance this could be the cause?

It logs correctly but if thats what it is I can take the advance out at that spot rather than add it in.

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

No expert here, but have read a lot that after a flash, the car needs to adjust and "learn" the new flash. Some have talked about flashing, then letting the car idle 5 minutes before driving away and that after driving, some miles need to be put in the car for the ECU to adjust. May be possible that while the ECU is learning something happens with cam phasing? (this is assuming you guys are flashing and right away running first dyno run then second dyno run, no idle time between flashing and dyno run).

I dont want it to learn if its losing where I want it to gain. Thats more or less what I am asking is what its learning and what I need to alter.

Originally Posted by sierra

I think it's more likely to be the ECU adjusting to the changes.
My car certainly improved steadily over the first 1000km and then I decided to re-set it to see what would happen. It felt flat again, with some hesitation to the throttle and is gradually improving. I read somewhere it learns and adjusts to changes without being re-set and that it takes some time to optimise those changes.

That same process might slowly eat away at some of the changes that were flashed into it?

It seems to learn in 30 seconds and/or one dyno pull.

Originally Posted by xjohnx

nothing really slow about this though, these runs are back to back from what i understand.

These were back to back, with all the fans on (we have a wind tunnel), all temps were back down to the green for the pull. I am a big fan of oil temp and water temp being a consistent part of tuning.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

nothing really slow about this though, these runs are back to back from what i understand.

But are they re-setting the ECU before each run?
I'm wondering if the ECU starts at a baseline and over 1000km optimises whatever settings are self optimising? Maybe that gets quicker with some memory being used to speed it up, memory that wasn't there before?

[johnbradley]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNxN3HMnZqE"]Namless Performance's 2013 Scion FR-S 188hp/159tq - English Racing - YouTube[/ame]

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by johnbradley

I dont want it to learn if its losing where I want it to gain. Thats more or less what I am asking is what its learning and what I need to alter.

I believe it has to do with Cam phasing. Also, Bob at Drift Office or Visconti can help you out for sure on that one.

One last thing, Perrin in their blog wrote once that Oil temperatures seemed to be the culprit of inconsistent Dyno runs.

[Jason@Nameless]

Here's another graph to show vs. stock. We're losing power somewhere here, but I'll tell you this much: I've driven both. Like I stole the car. And they are both f-all fast compared to even our other header setup w/ the full exhaust.

We will keep playing with various items on this and see what we can shake out. I'm curious if the stock midpipe is impacting any of this and we just have to figure out what to test next. Bottom line - this header is wicked.

Dyno Graph:



I can't wait to go drive it again. If you want to check the car out, it'll be at Cascade Cars & Coffee Portland with it tomorrow AM.

Jason

[johnbradley]

Originally Posted by sierra

But are they re-setting the ECU before each run?

Yes I was re-setting. You can tell if you do the run too soon before it has learned and adequate amount before you make the pull. I have had a chance to tune the car, then put it back on the dyno with months in between and it doesnt take any longer than what I have observed.

1 pull 30 seconds after intial restart - XXX
2nd pull 1.5 minutes after that, identical numbers with torque dip
3rd pull days apart and miles put on the car, identical to the 2nd pull

[sierra]

Originally Posted by johnbradley

Yes I was re-setting. You can tell if you do the run too soon before it has learned and adequate amount before you make the pull. I have had a chance to tune the car, then put it back on the dyno with months in between and it doesnt take any longer than what I have observed.

1 pull 30 seconds after intial restart - XXX
2nd pull 1.5 minutes after that, identical numbers with torque dip
3rd pull days apart and miles put on the car, identical to the 2nd pull

I'm assuming the tuning is with Ecutek.
Do you think that should lock out the ECU self learn process but it's still managing to interfere?

[Calum]

Could the dip be caused by the injectors switching from port to DI or vice versa? Another long shot I know but there are no stupid questions right?

Sent from mission control

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Calum

Could the dip be caused by the injectors switching from port to DI or vice versa? Another long shot I know but there are no stupid questions right?

Sent from mission control

The direct injection runs all the time but the port injection cuts out from about 3,000rpm to 5,000rpm

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...84&postcount=1

Could it be that with the high torque and fuel demand, the direct injection alone at that rpm range, is close to it's limits and the ECU is bringing it back to safer levels?

[Simmons]

Was this in 5th gear?


Simmons

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Here's another graph to show vs. stock. We're losing power somewhere here, but I'll tell you this much: I've driven both. Like I stole the car. And they are both f-all fast compared to even our other header setup w/ the full exhaust.

We will keep playing with various items on this and see what we can shake out. I'm curious if the stock midpipe is impacting any of this and we just have to figure out what to test next. Bottom line - this header is wicked.

Dyno Graph:



I can't wait to go drive it again. If you want to check the car out, it'll be at Cascade Cars & Coffee Portland with it tomorrow AM.

Jason

I was thinking that 2.1" midpipe is choking the system but I could be completely wrong. Was the 3" system tested with the stock midpipe as well? Just throwing out ideas. I'm baffled the dip returned.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Here's another graph to show vs. stock. We're losing power somewhere here, but I'll tell you this much: I've driven both. Like I stole the car. And they are both f-all fast compared to even our other header setup w/ the full exhaust.

We will keep playing with various items on this and see what we can shake out. I'm curious if the stock midpipe is impacting any of this and we just have to figure out what to test next. Bottom line - this header is wicked.

Dyno Graph:



I can't wait to go drive it again. If you want to check the car out, it'll be at Cascade Cars & Coffee Portland with it tomorrow AM.

Jason

Do you have this graph with AFRs?

Is there a corresponding slight richening in the 'regression' area?

[industrial]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

I was thinking that 2.1" midpipe is choking the system but I could be completely wrong. Was the 3" system tested with the stock midpipe as well? Just throwing out ideas. I'm baffled the dip returned.

If that were the case wouldn't it show up top rather than in the middle? Other than the great gains just about everywhere, there is some weird stuff going on in the dip area.