Who is happy the engine will be Naturally Aspirated?

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

And I think people are NOT being critical enough of what this car is supposed to be. I'm not saying it should be running 13-second quarter miles and 5-second 60mph dashes, but come on now.

2011 Toyota Camry 2.5L 169hp/167lbft; FWD, 6spd A/T; 3300 lbs: 0-60 = 7.8-8.1s; 1/4m = 16.2@86

FRS 2.0L 200hp/?lbft; RWD, 6spd M/T; 2700lbs?; 0-60 = <7s; 1/4m = <15.5s

Is that really TOO critical for a sports car? lol

My Impreza did a a 15 second even 1/4m with ~170-175hp. Weighs about 2700lbs too.

I suspect this car will be in the mid 14's stock just like the '02-05 WRX was. It will be plenty fast, and I still suspect a turbo or flat six will be offered later (flat six preferably IMO).

[Ryephile]

So, now that we've had a boatload of leaks [likely from the lunchroom at Toyota or Subaru], we can make some more informed commentary.

200 PS = 197 HP
205 NM = 151 LbFt
7400 RPM "redline"

Fearless prediction: Of all the posters that are bent out of shape that the FR-S/BRZ "only has a paltry" 197HP, 90% of the naysayers that actually go out and buy the car will quietly and rarely admit they're happy with the power right off the showroom floor.

The power to weight ratio is better than the sprightly NC Miata, and the torque-to-weight ratio is right there with the R53 MINI Cooper S. I suppose it'll all come down to price; if the FR-S and BRZ flop on the price point and the driving dynamics can't back up the asking price, then everyone will stick with MINI's, Miata's, used Boxster's, and GTI's.

I'll reserve final judgement until I actually drive a production model.

[no_name]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

it'll all come down to price; if the FR-S and BRZ flop on the price point and the driving dynamics can't back up the asking price, then everyone will stick with MINI's, Miata's, used Boxster's, and GTI's.

Don't forget the Genesis Coupe 2.0T and the Veloster 1.6T (when it's released).

[aliphian]

Originally Posted by Motordyne

I spoke with an engineer at Toyota and he said this will be somewhere between a Civic SI and S2000. Better than the prior but not as good as the latter.

That seems like common sense to me.

[Barike]

I'm for sure happy that it's naturally aspirated! In time I'll get a 4wd car with a turbo and learn to drive 4wd really well... But for now I am really liking the look of this one... Oh, a turbo on a diesel car is preferable

[CountChoculitis]

I thought for the longest time, that it was going to have a turbo, so when I read that it won't, I was a little bummed.

But, then it dawned on me, the biggest benefit of N/A....

LOWER INSURANCE

And with all my tickets, and living where I do, [ex. my bike insurance went up, $3,000 when I moved here...] every little thing that can lower my rate helps.

I was gonna buy a WRX, but I called my insurance company first and they said it was gonna be $5,000/year. It's was gonna cost more than the damn car! So I thought, 'hmm, what about a Legacy GT? That's gotta be cheaper to insure, cause it's not REALLY a sports car, it's a sedan with a nice motor...'

No. It was also $5,000/year.

So no complaints from me. I'd much rather add boost, than pay twice over for factory boost.

[Midnight Run]

I have no complaints either.. quite content with 200hp RWD. I'd rather get more seat time/track time with this car than adding power mods right away.

[armstrod]

I'm overjoyed that Subaru and Toyota fans are tearing strips out of each other over this... It's going to lead to all kinds of paths being taken to get power out of this engine.

Me I'm wrapped its an N/A. I'm lucky enough to have a few toys. I was once enamoured with boost, still have an SR20DET silvia in the shed as it's legacy, mild setup, around 280hp at the wheels. However my first STI absolutely shattered that love affair, the power "black hole" gutted me, yes you can keep it on song, but every time the car was slightly unsettled it shattered my connection with the car as the engine puffed itself back up again, only lasted 2 months before it was sold on. From there it was an 84 N/A 500SEC merc. This was something new, a 5 litre V8 that had been sent to RSL to be bored out, stroked, and fettled... there's a car that has an enchanting engine... big heavy pig of a thing to muscle through corners though... what the engine has the body takes away... fantastic for when I just feel like wafting about in traffic though.

Anyways, best car I own for sheer joy of driving? A 73 Beach buggy, with a stock 4cylinder N/A VW beetle hanging out the back. It's balance is horrible, the engine makes sod all power, its twitchy as hell above 100km/h and its now getting too rare and expensive to risk it off road. But that car is alive. The engines braps away, I find myself hunching into the wheel in bends and my hand hovers over the gear stick awaiting the shifts.

The 86 is the first new car in a very long time that I've felt will be fun to drive. I'm going to buy an early model particularly because it doesn't have a turbo. Nothing against them and those that want them, but once this car starts taking itself too seriously its going to lose all its charm to me.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by CountChoculitis

I thought for the longest time, that it was going to have a turbo, so when I read that it won't, I was a little bummed.

But, then it dawned on me, the biggest benefit of N/A....

LOWER INSURANCE

And with all my tickets, and living where I do, [ex. my bike insurance went up, $3,000 when I moved here...] every little thing that can lower my rate helps.

I was gonna buy a WRX, but I called my insurance company first and they said it was gonna be $5,000/year. It's was gonna cost more than the damn car! So I thought, 'hmm, what about a Legacy GT? That's gotta be cheaper to insure, cause it's not REALLY a sports car, it's a sedan with a nice motor...'

No. It was also $5,000/year.

So no complaints from me. I'd much rather add boost, than pay twice over for factory boost.

That's weird. Over the past 3 months I've gotten insurance quotes from my insurance provider for a new GTI, WRX, Mustang 6 and 8, Civic SI, Eclipse and Genesis Coupe and the Civic and Eclipse (both N/A) were the more expensive of the bunch to insure. Even more than the GTI and Mustang GT which both had a higher sticker price than the others. In my 10 years of car ownership, I've never known a vehicles induction type to have any affect on it's insurance costs. My new F150 is twin turbocharged, almost the same sticker price as my V8 Tundra that I owned before it... and the insurance is exactly the same.

I haven't paid 5grand a year for insurance since I was 18, how old are you?

Also, using saving money on insurance as a benefit of an N/A car over an FI car is just sad. lol

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

That's weird. Over the past 3 months I've gotten insurance quotes from my insurance provider for a new GTI, WRX, Mustang 6 and 8, Civic SI, Eclipse and Genesis Coupe and the Civic and Eclipse (both N/A) were the more expensive of the bunch to insure. Even more than the GTI and Mustang GT which both had a higher sticker price than the others. In my 10 years of car ownership, I've never known a vehicles induction type to have any affect on it's insurance costs. My new F150 is twin turbocharged, almost the same sticker price as my V8 Tundra that I owned before it... and the insurance is exactly the same.

I haven't paid 5grand a year for insurance since I was 18, how old are you?

Also, using saving money on insurance as a benefit of an N/A car over an FI car is just sad. lol

its not all that sad when hes potentially dealing with thousands of dollars. i mean i doubt its as significant as he hopes. however if it is, he could probably buy another one after he finishes payments simply with the money he saved on insurance

[3scapist]

I am, all motor is the way to go at the track.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Gadfly

You obviously are not a tuner...

If you compare the cost to tune both 200hp N/A motor and a 200hp turbocharged motor to 400hp it would make complete sense to you....

Ok, for a minute, back up and please read the thesis of this thread. No proponent here is desperately trying to tune to 400HP. 197HP is satisfactory. Naturally aspirated is desired. The cost to retain natural aspiration is not relevant, because it is the character of N/A that makes this car pure and enjoyable.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Ok, for a minute, back up and please read the thesis of this thread. No proponent here is desperately trying to tune to 400HP. 197HP is satisfactory. Naturally aspirated is desired. The cost to retain natural aspiration is not relevant, because it is the character of N/A that makes this car pure and enjoyable.

I like you.

[Blokatos]

N/A all the way!!!