Safety and Small, Low Cars

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Mandy

..I've been riding a motorcycle for the past 6 years, and obviously the FR-S is a huge step up in terms of protection for myself. I still drive as cautiously as though I was on a bike though.

Motorcycles are definitely a whole other discussion. I love riding, and do as often as I can, but that really makes you realize life is not a video game.

[TommyFive]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Point taken to, well a point. The "minivans" you're probably referencing are really just station wagons without the stigma of being a station wagon because they are built on car platforms.

What I consider to be a useful minivan I lump in the same class as SUVs. The two Chevy Astros I drove to over 500K miles I considered SUV class vehicles, not minivans because they were built on a truck platform. They both got 20MPG in everyday use and as much as 25MPG on the road.

My real point is though, there are folks that have real needs for those size vehicles. There is no such thing as a one size fits all, or even most.

I also don't buy the safety of others argument. Problem is that can be applied both ways. Small, sporty cars like the FR-S put just as many people in danger as SUVs just in a different way.

Why? It's the same part, the loose nut behind the wheel that is the problem.

I made sure to point out that if you're using a vehicle for a purpose which only that vehicle serves, it's all good in my eyes. You have a need, you fill it. Your Astro isn't at the astronomical heights of most SUVs, and so it's much better. I don't care if it's built on a truck frame or not - it's more likely to create favorable impact situations.

I am curious as to how small, sporty cars put just as many people in danger as SUVs. Sure, if you count danger as any accident, regardless of outcome. You cannot argue the numbers though - when a larger vehicle is involved in an accident, the smaller one draws the shit end of the stick. The fewer needlessly large vehicles we have on the road the better.

The driver behind the wheel is always going to be the most important element of safety, but lapses of judgement, attention and skill will always happen. I don't know about you, but I'd rather the texting teenager who drifts into my lane be driving a Camry rather than a Tahoe.

[Laika]

Originally Posted by TommyFive

I think the BRZ will be the shortest car I've ever owned.

The BRZ is longer AND wider than your focus. Height is 6" shorter....


I'm not sure why some people are acting like these cars are actually go karts. They aren't that small at all. They're just smaller than the modern junk we see. If you guys don't believe me park next to a focus (any year) and realize how big your car actually is.


If it weren't for health and safety these cars would actually be small

[TommyFive]

Originally Posted by Laika

The BRZ is longer AND wider than your focus. Height is 6" shorter....

Actually, The BRZ is 8+ inches shorter in length than my Focus. Just 3" wider.

Height is definitely the biggest mental barrier with my order at Subaru. Height plays into safety in a huge way. I'm still getting the car (whenever it gets here...), and I'm still selling my Focus, but that doesn't mean it can't be a concern of mine.

The twins definitely aren't "small" by the standards of cars 30 years ago, but compare them to what they're sharing the road with...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by TommyFive

Height is definitely the biggest mental barrier with my order at Subaru. Height plays into safety in a huge way. I'm still getting the car (whenever it gets here...), and I'm still selling my Focus, but that doesn't mean it can't be a concern of mine.

There's no winning the height arms race. In my mom's Honda Pilot, I still get scared when I see trucks (esp lifted ones) and other SUVs that are taller. Fairly sure in a head on that some of them would go over the hood and into the passenger compartment. I don't want to be the **** driving the tall car that blocks everyone's view.

[Dadhawk]

I'm not saying I don't understand the concern, I'm just not sure there is a real solution without an outright ban or massive change in the marketplace.

Originally Posted by TommyFive

I am curious as to how small, sporty cars put just as many people in danger as SUVs. Sure, if you count danger as any accident, regardless of outcome. .

You pretty much hit it. Trucks (from 4 to 18 wheels) get cut off by smaller cars all the time, particularly sporty cars driven by idiots street racing or pulling other dumb stunts (stopping traffic to do donuts in the middle of the road comes to mind, if you saw that video). The truck then ends up in an accident that appears to be their fault.

Originally Posted by TommyFive

You cannot argue the numbers though - when a larger vehicle is involved in an accident, the smaller one draws the shit end of the stick. The fewer needlessly large vehicles we have on the road the better.

Just as devil's advocate you could also argue that if everyone bought larger trucks and cars, problem solved! Your logic applies to any vehicle of different sizes though. Ask any avid motorcycle rider (including me). If we all rode motorcycles, the roads would be even safer. Then, of course, we'd be arguing over the danger a Goldwing presents to someone riding a Vespa.

I do see and understand your point. But there are lots of folks that buy lots of cars/trucks/motorcycles/pod racers/Delorean time machines they don't need and don't know how to handle and they all cause some issue of some type.

Drive safe, but lets drive!

[Anorax]

Four Words: Defensive Driving

(think about it)

And a few more:
I've ridden motorcycles off and on again, and I know I can NOT trust other drivers to be aware of their surroundings.

When I'm commuting, I drive like I ride. When I hit the canyons, game on.

[Gixxersixxerman]

I'm big on motorcycles.. Most likely will ride till I'm to old to hold one up or I'm dead... I have a friend up that is the same.. I come from big bodied SUV scene, Tahoes, yukons, escalades, excursions, expeditions, anyways.. My smallest SUV was a 03 Nissan xterra.. All but the xterra was lower then my FRS.. They all could lay frame. But that's what I was into, my boy hates it.. Thinks SUV's should be banned.. A lot of the same points here are what he uses.. An van/minivan will do the same, his thing, no one buys a new escalade and takes it serious off roading, he thinks anything bigger then his ranger should have a special license.. He does use his ranger for work as he owns a machine shop..

I tell him it's the right of people being able to buy what they want, how can you tell so done they can't own that.. He tells me it's a danger to others... BUT.. Get him on the topic of his arsenal.. ar15's, ak47's a very nice Barrett 50 sniper rifle, and tons of other nice weapons, all a want... None a need.. He feels no one can tell him he can't own a weapon like that, but feels he can tell someone they can't own a SUV..

I started with my Tahoe, my ex had 3 kids and I have 2 and we had 2 jet skis. It just made sense to have one.. But I don't agree with the jacked up trucks.. They jack them up that high, they need to have the bumper located at the right height.. Which would looks stupid, and there for hopefully a lot less posers out there in jacked up trucks lol

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If we all rode motorcycles, the roads would be even safer. Then, of course, we'd be arguing over the danger a Goldwing presents to someone riding a Vespa.

Nope, it would be this:

"How was your commute to work today, Bob?"

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Nope, it would be this:

"How was your commute to work today, Bob?"

Hah, yea you are probably right, and I have the road rash to prove it.

[dem00n]

In most highly populated areas with lots of traffic, if 10% of people who drive cars switched to motorcycles the traffic could be reduced around 40% more or less.

Tell me thats not worth it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by dem00n

In most highly populated areas with lots of traffic, if 10% of people who drive cars switched to motorcycles the traffic could be reduced around 40% more or less.

Tell me thats not worth it.

a forty percent reduction in traffic is not worth any human lives. i do think the danger in small cars is not the small cars but the stupid big cars. big cars are a danger to small cars, pedestrians, non renewable resources and the environment. thanks to standard oil, those are the vehicles that end up subsidized by the us government

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by fatoni

a forty percent reduction in traffic is not worth any human lives. i do think the danger in small cars is not the small cars but the stupid big cars. big cars are a danger to small cars, pedestrians, non renewable resources and the environment. thanks to standard oil, those are the vehicles that end up subsidized by the us government

Yes but traffic causes road rage which causes a loss of life as well, no one should ever drive when they are angry, never ends well.