Safety and Small, Low Cars

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Trashed675

...
I genuinely don't understand the appeal of the vast majority of SUV's(Ford Explorer, chevy suburban, Nissan armada, Toyota land cruiser ect). You don't need a 400hp family barge that gets 12mpg, you just don't.

/rant

OK, first full disclosure, Olivia the FR-S has a sister, Hellga the Suburban.

If you have 3 sons who play sports and you help coach, a wife who plays piano in multiple bands, and when you aren't zipping around in your FR-S you do woodworking, build kitplanes and the family pet is a Newfoundland that weighs 160lbs, you might need an SUV.

Unfortunately not all families can own a car for every purpose so most folks I know that have family barges have them because they need them on more than renting for special occasions will allow.

Just saying....

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

OK, first full disclosure, Olivia the FR-S has a sister, Hellga the Suburban.

If you have 3 sons who play sports and you help coach, a wife who plays piano in multiple bands, and when you aren't zipping around in your FR-S you do woodworking, build kitplanes and the family pet is a Newfoundland that weighs 160lbs, you might need an SUV.

Unfortunately not all families can own a car for every purpose so most folks I know that have family barges have them because they need them on more than renting for special occasions will allow.

Just saying....

Yep agree. Just because one personally doesn't need an SUV doesn't mean no one in the world does. There are plenty of people who own SUVs because their lifestyles require them.

That said, he's probably right that for many people, owning an SUV is not really necessary. I can think of some single friends who could get by with a car, but chose to buy SUVs for various reasons (ride height, looks, toughness, etc.)

What does annoy me are people who never go off-roading, but raise their SUVs/pickups. Those are serious safety hazards.

The driver of this Mustang suffered permanent brain injuries.

[Levi]

That might be more of an issue in the US. Less so here in EU. What I don't like is that when you drive behind a SUV or MPV, you can't see what is in front of him.

But this will not prevent me from getting a compact car like the GT86 or even more, the 4C, with its length of less than 4 meters, its width of nearly 2 meters and it hight of 1.18 meters.

[SubieNate]

Was that a convertible mustang or did they jaws of life the roof off?

[TommyFive]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If you have 3 sons who play sports and you help coach, a wife who plays piano in multiple bands, and when you aren't zipping around in your FR-S you do woodworking, build kitplanes and the family pet is a Newfoundland that weighs 160lbs, you might need an SUV.

Unfortunately not all families can own a car for every purpose so most folks I know that have family barges have them because they need them on more than renting for special occasions will allow.

Just saying....

Counterpoint: Everything a SUV can do on-road, a minivan can do better. They have more cargo room, equal or more seating, and some of them even have decent towing capacity. You can take out all of the seats for big hauling jobs, too - I've moved couches, 46" CRT TVs, queen-size mattresses and more in my dad's old minivan. I doubt my cousin could fit a twin mattress in his Explorer. Minivans are literally tailor-made for hauling lots of crap - be it people or your riding lawn mower. Can't say the same for SUVs.

They even get generally better gas mileage! And the icing on the cake: They're inherently safer for small and midsize cars. They're lower to the ground because they don't pretend to be some off-road monster.

If people are genuinely off-roading or constantly tow things, I'm okay with SUVs. Otherwise, there are better and safer options (even if they don't have the "style" of an SUV).

[whaap]

One thing I learned from riding motorcycles all my life is defensive driving. A little story from many years back. I was driving a Suzuki Samurai and this guy commented to me one day "don't those things turn over easy". I responded "not as easy as my mtorcycle does". Talk about a blank look on a guys face. I got a chuckle out of that.

[ZDan]

So spot-on, it bears repeating!

Originally Posted by TommyFive

Counterpoint: Everything a SUV can do on-road, a minivan can do better. They have more cargo room, equal or more seating, and some of them even have decent towing capacity. You can take out all of the seats for big hauling jobs, too - I've moved couches, 46" CRT TVs, queen-size mattresses and more in my dad's old minivan. I doubt my cousin could fit a twin mattress in his Explorer. Minivans are literally tailor-made for hauling lots of crap - be it people or your riding lawn mower. Can't say the same for SUVs.

They even get generally better gas mileage! And the icing on the cake: They're inherently safer for small and midsize cars. They're lower to the ground because they don't pretend to be some off-road monster.

If people are genuinely off-roading or constantly tow things, I'm okay with SUVs. Otherwise, there are better and safer options (even if they don't have the "style" of an SUV).

[mangostick]

people have a stigma about mini-vans. personally I'd rather rock a wagon of some sort if I had those needs.. but that's me. I agree about SUV's.. when the fuel prices skyrocketed and people were trading them in I was just about doing the happy dance. I used to be an avid off-roader too.. but that Cherokee literally saw as many miles off the pavement as it did on it, and even then wasn't lifted to an extreme where I'd roll over someone in a small car. Next point, is that no matter what people are driving they need to PAY ATTENTION to what they're doing. I see a lot of SUV drivers haulin ass while yelling at kids, texting and putting on makeup (yeah.. sadly it was a female) .. doing all that crap at once instead of driving is how a SUV runs over a smaller car.

A favorite quote of mine applies here " there are no accidents, only moments lacking forethought that end in disaster "

[dawnst3ar]

While I agree with most of what you all are saying, I bought my wife (and kids) a Ford Flex earlier this year. They sit lower than most SUVs, and they actually feel a lot like a minivan without being one.

Living in Texas, though, I have come to HATE jacked up diesels/Fords/Dodge/GM trucks much more than the Suburbadumps.

[Allch Chcar]

Coming from trucks and mini-vans, I got a really bad wake up to the danger in my old "low" foxbody Mustang. Just one time I made the mistake of pulling out in front of an oncoming F-250. The sight of that huge truck barreling down on me made my heart stop for a second.

On the flip side, I've nearly clobbered people/cars when they disappeared in the thick A-pillars of my mom's SUV. It freaked me out when I discovered even a mid-size car could disappear from my view. I went from double checking to triple and sometimes even quadruple checking. It makes driving the SUV super-stressful.

Originally Posted by TommyFive

If people are genuinely off-roading or constantly tow things, I'm okay with SUVs. Otherwise, there are better and safer options (even if they don't have the "style" of an SUV).

Good points all of them. One point I want to mention is that mini-vans can be decent haulers with the proper tow hitch. There are AWD mini-vans too but it's a less popular option than 4wd is for trucks.

Originally Posted by dawnst3ar

While I agree with most of what you all are saying, I bought my wife (and kids) a Ford Flex earlier this year. They sit lower than most SUVs, and they actually feel a lot like a minivan without being one.

Living in Texas, though, I have come to HATE jacked up diesels/Fords/Dodge/GM trucks much more than the Suburbadumps.

Crossovers are like a blending of SUVs and Mini-vans so what you say makes sense. I like them, excepting that they're all FWD or FWD biased. Now Mini-vans are notoriously boring, but I've seen a few Crossovers that at least interested me if I needed such a vehicle.

[Black Tire]

Seeing around and over other vehicles is difficult. Also, the FR-S sits so low and is so small that other vehicles sometimes miss it. I don't let it worry me too much though. Remember that the most important safety item in the car should sit in the driver's seat.

If this worries you, here is another option:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic"]The Marauder - South Africa's Ten Ton Military Vehicle - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by TommyFive

Counterpoint: Everything a SUV can do on-road, a minivan can do better. They have more cargo room, equal or more seating, and some of them even have decent towing capacity. You can take out all of the seats for big hauling jobs, too - I've moved couches, 46" CRT TVs, queen-size mattresses and more in my dad's old minivan. I doubt my cousin could fit a twin mattress in his Explorer. Minivans are literally tailor-made for hauling lots of crap - be it people or your riding lawn mower. Can't say the same for SUVs.

Point taken to, well a point. The "minivans" you're probably referencing are really just station wagons without the stigma of being a station wagon because they are built on car platforms.

What I consider to be a useful minivan I lump in the same class as SUVs. The two Chevy Astros I drove to over 500K miles I considered SUV class vehicles, not minivans because they were built on a truck platform. They both got 20MPG in everyday use and as much as 25MPG on the road.

My real point is though, there are folks that have real needs for those size vehicles. There is no such thing as a one size fits all, or even most.

I also don't buy the safety of others argument. Problem is that can be applied both ways. Small, sporty cars like the FR-S put just as many people in danger as SUVs just in a different way.

Why? It's the same part, the loose nut behind the wheel that is the problem.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Y...
What does annoy me are people who never go off-roading, but raise their SUVs/pickups. Those are serious safety hazards.

The driver of this Mustang suffered permanent brain injuries.

I agree with you on this. However, that also goes both ways. Folks that lower their car for no purpose other than "its gotta be slammed" are just as guilty.

Sorry to hear about the driver's injuries. Hopefully it wasn't his fault. Pictures don't always tell the whole story.

[Mandy]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sorry to hear about the driver's injuries. Hopefully it wasn't his fault. Pictures don't always tell the whole story.

Fortunately the twins are equipped with side-curtain air bags. Something old Mustangs don't have, as I recall. Obviously old small/low cars were more dangerous then ones produced today.

I've been riding a motorcycle for the past 6 years, and obviously the FR-S is a huge step up in terms of protection for myself. I still drive as cautiously as though I was on a bike though.