A pessimist's take on sales success / failure

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Giccin

Lol@ at all these supra comments.

Of course it'd be awesome if the car came back... but look at the state of the world economy. Unless you're the son/daughter of some big ass company, mine your own oil, or have a very comfortable job in a company you've been working for for several years. The likelihood of people purchasing a sports car nowadays is slim. Especially with all this.. "Save the Planet. Be Eco. Use electric. Use your poop to make diesel fuel. Need 80mpg hummer" stuff going on. I think it will be hard to sell a sports car at... 30-40k. Well not crazy hard. But rather hard.

Hey toyota can do it if they want to. We already know they are going to bring back the Supra. They just have to price it right. Like Nissan priced the 350\370z right. Porsche is not having a hard time selling its sports cars. A manufacture just has to have a product that people want.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Giccin

Use your poop to make diesel fuel.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Giccin

Lol@ at all these supra comments.

Of course it'd be awesome if the car came back... but look at the state of the world economy. Unless you're the son/daughter of some big ass company, mine your own oil, or have a very comfortable job in a company you've been working for for several years. The likelihood of people purchasing a sports car nowadays is slim. Especially with all this.. "Save the Planet. Be Eco. Use electric. Use your poop to make diesel fuel. Need 80mpg hummer" stuff going on. I think it will be hard to sell a sports car at... 30-40k. Well not crazy hard. But rather hard.

If there are enough demands( in their views) for such a car, they would have made it. I don't see why not. They can make a new platform for Yamaha tuned 2UR-GSE and compete with GT-R. Or they go Electric Assist Engine (hybrid), If it's possible for any other automakers, it's possible for Toyota. They just need demands so that they can cover all the cost of R&D and producing the car.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Dark

If there are enough demands( in their views) for such a car, they would have made it. I don't see why not. They can make a new platform for Yamaha tuned 2UR-GSE and compete with GT-R. Or they go Electric Assist Engine (hybrid), If it's possible for any other automakers, it's possible for Toyota. They just need demands so that they can cover all the cost of R&D and producing the car.

If demands are high.

I don't want to get into politics since I'm not as into it as some people are... but I can see the middle class diminishing.

If the supra does come back into production. Awesome! If it doesnt.. well can't really blame Toyota--look at the state of the world.

Prime examples of how the U.S is taking care of business.
"Lindsay Lohan... is now back in jail."
"Michael Jackson's doctor is now a prime suspect"
"NOW ON FOX! SEX SCANDLE. JUSTIN BEIBER."

[KaliKev]

Originally Posted by Giccin

If demands are high.

I don't want to get into politics since I'm not as into it as some people are... but I can see the middle class diminishing.

If the supra does come back into production. Awesome! If it doesnt.. well can't really blame Toyota--look at the state of the world.

Prime examples of how the U.S is taking care of business.
"Lindsay Lohan... is now back in jail."
"Michael Jackson's doctor is now a prime suspect"
"NOW ON FOX! SEX SCANDLE. JUSTIN BEIBER."

[Ikaros]

I think Toyota might be using the FT 86 to test the water on how the public feels about a new wave of sports car. The demands for these kind of cars died off for a reason. They were really expensive and not very pratical combine that with thenegative view on street racing and that gives you get that drop in demand.

I think car companies are trying to get back into that market and are trying to think of a new approach. Take Honda for example their new CRZ us suppose to be inspired from the CRX much like how the FT 86 was inspired by the AE 86. Honda saw the increase demand for hybrids so they made a hybrid sports coupe crossover. I personally hate the CRZ because it's slow and not really that fuel efficient but that's just my personal preference.

Toyota on the other hand is targeting the track community. Which seems like a safer and regulated version of street racing. Though I can't really say that for certain cause I have never been to one of these track events before, so correct me if I said something wrong and stupid. (If anyone here knows one that is close to Vancouver tell me cause I would love to join when I get this car.) This in my mind is a better appproach to try to jump start the industry because it providing a car in which the infrastructure for it's use is already present in many community. This is why I don't really think the FT 86 sales are going to fail horribly but rather open a new generation of sports car from Toyota.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

I think Toyota might be using the FT 86 to test the water on how the public feels about a new wave of sports car. The demands for these kind of cars died off for a reason. They were really expensive and not very pratical combine that with thenegative view on street racing and that gives you get that drop in demand.

I think car companies are trying to get back into that market and are trying to think of a new approach. Take Honda for example their new CRZ us suppose to be inspired from the CRX much like how the FT 86 was inspired by the AE 86. Honda saw the increase demand for hybrids so they made a hybrid sports coupe crossover. I personally hate the CRZ because it's slow and not really that fuel efficient but that's just my personal preference.

Toyota on the other hand is targeting the track community. Which seems like a safer and regulated version of street racing. Though I can't really say that for certain cause I have never been to one of these track events before, so correct me if I said something wrong and stupid. (If anyone here knows one that is close to Vancouver tell me cause I would love to join when I get this car.) This in my mind is a better appproach to try to jump start the industry because it providing a car in which the infrastructure for it's use is already present in many community. This is why I don't really think the FT 86 sales are going to fail horribly but rather open a new generation of sports car from Toyota.

And they don't have to make 30,000 of these a year...Nissan only sells about 12,000 370Z a year and is doing fine...


Scion should have no problem selling 3000 a year...

[Ikaros]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

And they don't have to make 30,000 of these a year...Nissan only sells about 12,000 370Z a year and is doing fine...


Scion should have no problem selling 3000 a year...

Yeah and apparently since Scion has that fair price thing there's not going to be a huge mark up on the price of the FR-S in Canada than the US.

Like the 370z starts at $40,898 here when it's only $31,450 in the US, thats almost a $9,500 mark up! Which is also why there are very little 370z up here

[yarik83]

Unfortunately sales figures are a poor indication of how car is doing here in USA. You could be living under a bridge with not a dime in the pocket and walk into a car dealership and strike a deal for 100%APR loan making $5000/mo payments.

Car manufacturers found the golden sale number of $15,000-$25,000 and stick to it. Anything higher is a niche type thing.

Toyota Land Cruiser for example has relatively low sale figures and is geared towards families with high income. By contrast Toyota Sequoia is cheaper and sold more... substantially more and is geared towards families with high income who want to drive an SUV and afford to go to overseas vacation spots. Toyota 4 runner sold even higher numbers and is geared towards upper middle class peeps but numbers pale in comparison to something like a camry which sits in golden zone of 15-25K and sells like hot potatoes and appeals to everyone else in this country.

Measure of exclusivity allows car manufacturer to sustain themselves. Take Ferrari for example. They do not sell a lot of cars but each car they sell costs like a bazillion dollars, each part has to be purchased from the dealer, all service has to be done at dealership etc etc etc. But to maintain that level of exclusivity car must have something that other cars do not. Simply trying to butt in does not always work as people paying that kind of cash desire more than just a radically fast car that is anything but comfortable to drive.

Considering Supra history... it will not cost less than 30,000 and likely costing $40,000 for sport model. Like pointed out in posts above it will significantly limit their client base which was one of the reasons why toyota stopped producing supras in the first place... ridiculously cool... ridiculously fast...ridiculously expensive. Adjusted for inflation supras used to cost around $55,000 in today's money.

But having said all of that... mitsubishi evo 11 will allegedly feature a hybrid powerplant. You can bet that next generation of WRX will too... so supra may come back to us as some sort of hybrid thingie that will be even more costly to own than its former gas guzzling younger self.

[suprachica79]

Originally Posted by yarik83

Unfortunately sales figures are a poor indication of how car is doing here in USA. You could be living under a bridge with not a dime in the pocket and walk into a car dealership and strike a deal for 100%APR loan making $5000/mo payments.

Car manufacturers found the golden sale number of $15,000-$25,000 and stick to it. Anything higher is a niche type thing.

Toyota Land Cruiser for example has relatively low sale figures and is geared towards families with high income. By contrast Toyota Sequoia is cheaper and sold more... substantially more and is geared towards families with high income who want to drive an SUV and afford to go to overseas vacation spots. Toyota 4 runner sold even higher numbers and is geared towards upper middle class peeps but numbers pale in comparison to something like a camry which sits in golden zone of 15-25K and sells like hot potatoes and appeals to everyone else in this country.

Measure of exclusivity allows car manufacturer to sustain themselves. Take Ferrari for example. They do not sell a lot of cars but each car they sell costs like a bazillion dollars, each part has to be purchased from the dealer, all service has to be done at dealership etc etc etc. But to maintain that level of exclusivity car must have something that other cars do not. Simply trying to butt in does not always work as people paying that kind of cash desire more than just a radically fast car that is anything but comfortable to drive.

Considering Supra history... it will not cost less than 30,000 and likely costing $40,000 for sport model. Like pointed out in posts above it will significantly limit their client base which was one of the reasons why toyota stopped producing supras in the first place... ridiculously cool... ridiculously fast...ridiculously expensive. Adjusted for inflation supras used to cost around $55,000 in today's money.

But having said all of that... mitsubishi evo 11 will allegedly feature a hybrid powerplant. You can bet that next generation of WRX will too... so supra may come back to us as some sort of hybrid thingie that will be even more costly to own than its former gas guzzling younger self.

well said broseph

[Zgrinch]

I was tempted to start a new thread, because I could find very few posts, let alone any threads, that specifically focus on preordering....however the number of posts next to my name made me hestitate.

So, once we have the final production exterior/interior pics, specs, options, and prices, how many of you will head to your local Scion/Subaru dealership and place a preorder with a deposit?

[old greg]

Originally Posted by yarik83

Adjusted for inflation supras used to cost around $55,000 in today's money.

You need to account for more than just inflation.

Originally Posted by old greg

*disclaimer: I am not an economist*

The price would very much depend on the relative strength of the Dollar vs. the Yen, which right now is the worst it has ever been. The only time in history that the exchange rate was anywhere near as bad was in 1995, when a Supra TT w/ 6spd had an msrp of $49,900. In 2011 money, that's $74,200. Given that the current exchange rate is 10% worse than it was in 1995, an equivalent car built today could reasonably be expected to cost $81,600 or more.

[yarik83]

If I were in a position to want to buy a vehicle such as FT-86 in whatever form, I would very carefully consider how badly I wanted this car. Most off the lot vehicle drop 30% in their value in first year. Waiting a little bit could save substantial amount of cash. Another thing to consider is that almost all first year production models suffer from some sort of post birth syndrome requiring recall. Dodge magnum is a perfect example. I have yet to meet a dodge magnum owner who have not gone through more than 2 replaced transmissions. My co-worker's magnum has just been totaled when vehicle was parked but before that he went through transmissions, had all kinds of other issues including his entire vehicle leaning or his front suspension twisting out even after he realigned it on a 6 month basis.

FT-86 could be no exception. Not to say that it will have issues but value drop and first model discrepancies should definitely be on one's mind when making purchase decisions.

[Snoopyalien24]

Another pessimist tale, if Toyota doesn't sell well but the BRZ does, or vice versa, will the production of both cars seize?