Have you hit 200whp NA?

[Opposed]

Originally Posted by industrial

Most of our cars with i/e/tune seem to be in the 170-180 range from what I've seen. I'm not very optimistic that headers will make any power to be honest. Maybe on their own they will. But added to a car with a tune and exhaust I'm not sure there is anything there. I think we are limited by the VE of the motor. I mean, the stock cam is what 250 duration? No idea on lift. It really seems to choke after 6500-7000rpm. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

I agree with you. I know the K-series can get mean with intake manifold and cams, usually over 230-240 whp. I just wish dropping cams in the FA20 would be just as easy, and cheap, but im assuming it wont be.

[Snake]

Why are people always bringing up that the FA20 won't respond to mods like the K20.

OF COURSE IT WON'T!

The K20 has variable lift cams and revs to 9k RPM so the heads breathe a million times better at high RPM than the FA20. When you remove exhaust back pressure and free up the intake from minor mods you will see much higher gains. End of story.

Can people stop comparing the FA20 to Honda Vtec motors now!? In EVERY thread SOMEONE says, my K20 makes more power or responds better to this mod, it is starting to annoy me.

/rant.

[mangostick]

K series still doesn't make any torque at streetable rpm.

At least the FA motor makes close to 70% of its peak torque through most of its useable rpm range. Cant say same for the K or B series engines unless they're boosted.

Torque goes a long way for driveability and fun in a street car. Granted we're not going to make huge torque without FI.. but even with the infamous "dip" we still make more torque earlier out of the FA vs the K.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by mangostick

K series still doesn't make any torque at streetable rpm.

At least the FA motor makes close to 70% of its peak torque through most of its useable rpm range. Cant say same for the K or B series engines unless they're boosted.

Torque goes a long way for driveability and fun in a street car. Granted we're not going to make huge torque without FI.. but even with the infamous "dip" we still make more torque earlier out of the FA vs the K.

Call me crazy but I'd rather have something that likes to rev with more power being made up top than having nice low end grunt. This ain't a truck! I'm going to install some 272s or maybe even 290s when the time comes. Because racecar!

[FreshFRS]

just going to throw in the fact the FWD civics have way less drivetrain loss as compared to a RWD something like 20% less (dont quote me on that) its easier for a civic SI (200 crank hp) to hit 200whp than it is for the FRS to hit 200whp based on that alone. its not a great comparison IMHO.

on another note i would like to see some 264deg cams. should be plenty for a mostly street driven car. nice balance of power and drivability.

[FA5]

Originally Posted by Sivtec

^^ This.

I had an 08 Si before the FRS and I will say, I do miss the VTEC.

Originally Posted by industrial

Call me crazy but I'd rather have something that likes to rev with more power being made up top than having nice low end grunt. This ain't a truck! I'm going to install some 272s or maybe even 290s when the time comes. Because racecar!

I am sure you will miss your VTEC every single nite before bedtime
I am a Honda guy and I love my 08 FA5.
K20 is one of the best 4 cyl engine ever on the market. Very strong motor and tuner friendly. With little bolt on and it's already been life up the motor. I still remember the day I pick up my brz back home then I keep switch between my FA5 and BRZ for comparison. In conclusion, FA20 wasn't the engine I really in love. I am sure you will understand my point if you own the K20 now or before.

On the other hand, I am agree that our car still too new on the market and just give time to be mature. Do you remember how long was it take for hondata came out the Kpro for the civic SI? We was bitching that at 8th civic forum for years and years.

IMO, K20 on the SI which make it one of the best sporty FWD on the market but sport car. We have way better technology on the chassis and platform which make Honda envy.

I have my fate on our FA20 can be as strong and tuner friendly as K20.

[2forme]

I had a 2008 Civic Si (K20), it was a SLUG below vtec. I only put an intake on it before selling it anyway.

The K20 makes more power, but only up high. It's the same reason I chose the 86 over an S2K, I don't spend my entire time driving above 6500. I wanted something with more oomph down low.

And for the record, I made 186whp with AFE intake, SRT headerback, and tune.

[mangostick]

Originally Posted by industrial

Call me crazy but I'd rather have something that likes to rev with more power being made up top than having nice low end grunt. This ain't a truck! I'm going to install some 272s or maybe even 290s when the time comes. Because racecar!

Well.. then yes you are crazy. Does your car even see the track? Then notracecar.

Corner exit much? broad smooth torque is king. You'll learn.. give it time.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by mangostick

Well.. then yes you are crazy. Does your car even see the track? Then notracecar.

Corner exit much? broad smooth torque is king. You'll learn.. give it time.

This x 10 lol

[industrial]

Originally Posted by mangostick

Well.. then yes you are crazy. Does your car even see the track? Then notracecar.

Corner exit much? broad smooth torque is king. You'll learn.. give it time.

I'd rather have a nice broad smooth torque curve from 5000-8500 rpm than a nice lump of torque at 2000-3000 for city driving and another bump at 5000-6500 for fun driving. What we have in our car is a compromise.

I don't care about having low end torque if I can have a large smooth powerband, I don't mind having to keep the revs up. Yes I understand having low end torque is good for scooting around town. I'm not as interested if the trade off is choking on the top end.

Stock the car is okay. It's a good compromise. If we are modding our cars to suit our tastes, I'd rather trade low end torque for high end torque. Okay? Calm down buddy. I'm not even sure what you said makes sense in relation to what I said. You just said it so enthusiastically. When did I say I didn't want a broad smooth torque curve? I'm not proposing running a gt35r to 35psi with 290s.

This k20 i/h/e/kpro powerband would be awesome in our car:

[Simmons]

Since this turned into a K series post, The owner of Karcepts has a K swap civic that is making some realy nice NA numbers.


Simmons

[gabeg86]

well since we're all bringing up our past/present k20's lol.... i had an 06 rsx type-s before getting the fr-s and i too compare them a lot... made 182whp and 130wtq with only an aem cai and that's it. crazy that people have to get a full headerback, intake, and tune for about the same top end power. the fa20 does have a lot more torque tho! just wish it was as easy to mod

[2forme]

Originally Posted by industrial

This k20 i/h/e/kpro powerband would be awesome in our car:

No, no it wouldn't.

Here's an overlay of the K20 with I/RH/E/Kpro and my FA20 with I/E/ECUTek.

The K20 would just make our cars feel much slower on the low end. It only begins making more power at 6900 RPM. So I mean, if you want to stay above 6900 RPM, sure you'll be faster, but for the 95% of driving done below... not a chance. haha

Also, I'm pretty sure a full race header and tune on the FA20 would lift that falling torque quite a bit higher up in the rev range.

[WolfsFang]

4g63 is the best 4 banger engine

*runs away*