TRD Parts for FR-S / 86 Revealed!

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Um, no. Otherwise, Formula 1 would ditch their center-lock and go for an old-skool wide-5.

The bolt pattern's only job is to maintain a frictional interface between the wheel and the hub. The only reason to complain about the bolt pattern is because your favorite wheels aren't made in that pattern, which means you'll have to suck it up, deal with it, and either re-drill the pattern or find a new set of wheels that are in 5x100 with about a 48 offset, of which there are tons to choose from.

Yep, but if it's the 5x100 from Subaru's parts bin then you'd know that the bearings on their 5x100 majorly suck when combined with wider and stickier tires.

I've went thru a lot of them.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Yep, but if it's the 5x100 from Subaru's parts bin then you'd know that the bearings on their 5x100 majorly suck when combined with wider and stickier tires.

I've went thru a lot of them.

Stickier tires isn't the problem w subie 5x100. Wide offset cause fast wear down.

My friend have sedan ver Impreza (GC6) and had stock wheels (16x7) w sticky tires for 9 yrs... close to 10 yrs (of course tires been replace every 1~2 yrs due to tracks/autox) and not til this yr he had to replace the bearing. vs me w 17x7.5 lil bit crazy offset first yr into crazy wide wheels, bearing went out... and next yr prob need to replace the again (4yrs since replaced it).

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by madfast

define out perform. and at what boost?

the problem is that there are very little SC kits out there that are properly designed

Do you know how a Centrifugal supercharger works? Properly designed? That don't make much sense to say that when the companies that produce S/C'ers have been doing it for decades.

Originally Posted by madfast

. its really that simple. they either use old gen eaton roots blowers, or they dont have an integrated intercooler, or they use a vortech/non-rotrex style centrifugal kit with or without intercooler. ALL of those are NOT up to par with a turbo. i dont think anybody will disagree.
however im talking about the new age of supercharging. either a 6th gen eaton TVS or twin screw design. both offer adiabatic efficiency in the 70% range and some approaching 80%. they can run more boost, more efficiently. AND most modern kits have an integrated water-air intercooler.

Intercoolers add thermal efficiency but it's not a deciding factor between a S/C'ers efficiency compared to a turbo's efficiency.

Originally Posted by madfast

so why doesnt anybody make they awesome kits for 4 cyl imports? CULTURE. the "import culture" has always embraced the turbo. maybe because the best imports (gtr, evo, sti, supra, rx7, etc) had factory turbos, maybe because the older gen SC's have a bad rep, etc. but the fact of the matter is, if you look at the domestics, they embrace the SC over the turbo. its part of their culture to slap a blower on. the result? AMAZING kits from lysholm, whipple, magnuson, vortech VTS, roush, edelbrock, kennebell, etc... again, not to say there are no turbo domestics, but if you want FI the common route is SC over turbo. for imports its turbo over SC.

Thanks for confirming what I already wrote. If it's a V8 then the difference is minor from S/C to turbo on the same applications. Everything you listed was American Muscle V8's. They are not Import Motors.

Originally Posted by madfast

so the bottomline is to not compare a well engineered turbo kit with a crappy second thought SC kit. the FACT remains that a SC will give you a better boost curve given MODEST boost levels.

Still not true

Originally Posted by madfast

minimal lag is still lag. you cannot change this fact, lest you run WRC-style ALS on a street car. for some it makes a difference. for others it doesnt. the tq curve of a turbo engine will not be as flat as a SC. again, for some it matters and for some it doesnt.

Bro, Minimal lag is basically nonexistant. I'm talking "Not noticeable" minimal lag. And lag in a turbo is still more efficient than the Centrifugal S/C design. And the Torque curve of a turbo depends on the turbo. You can change the curve simply by changing the turbine size. Not all S/C'ers produce a flat torque curve just like not all turbo sizes create a flat curve. You shouldn't generalize in that fashion because of a little thing called tuning.

Originally Posted by madfast

it may not be more efficient, but the efficiency is coming increasingly closer to a turbo. some SC literature/advertising even claim better efficiency. but i digress. its not always about efficiency. sometimes the boost curve/torque curve and the driveability of it is more important to you than numbers...

Power is not included into subject of Efficiency.

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Says you!

I'd be perfectly happy with Subaru or Toyota take-offs. I could care less about spending obscene money on wheels.

My only concern is the offset, but I suspect they will be Subaru offsets (Between +48 and +55)

I'd take them too. But there is a reason why those wheels cost more money. Design is part of the equation. Albeit you do pay for a name as well.

Like I said, I'm going to be running a set of 18x10 XXR's on the tC and XXR's are cheap.

I would prefer a set of CCW's though. Eventually I will pick up some CCW's.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2224971

For the millionth time I've posted this link here

There are lots of choices for 5 X 100

Think about this... Company xxxx sees that the fr-s suddenly becomes a popular car.. I think the company, being smart, will start releasing more variants in that size, because of the sudden interest. All major rim brands can have special order placed if you are really that desperate lol

One wheel? And that wheel was JUST released.

Originally Posted by cyde01

i like the look of deep offsets and concave faces as well. but to get a concave face you typically need at least 17x9, which would prob be a little overkill unless you really boosted this thing no?

300whp in this little car is plenty to need a 9 incher under the chassis

Originally Posted by Ryephile

In your words, "minimal lag". That means they still have lag. For those of us that prefer, or insist upon n/a or SC "instantaneous" feeling, turbo's still can't cut the mustard.

Only a Roots Type S/C is instant boost. Not all of the S/C'ers are instant.

[tripjammer]

Actually it is still a rumor that it is using 5x100 bolt pattern. It's nowhere in the current specs...maybe we will find out for sure at the tokyo motor show...

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Actually it is still a rumor that it is using 5x100 bolt pattern. It's nowhere in the current specs...maybe we will find out for sure at the tokyo motor show...

The 5x100 was by deducing what wheels have been used on the spy shots and display models/prototypes.

[Dragonitti]

Both are tC's. My boy's tC is a 2008 and mine is a 2006. Both are running GT3076R turbo's except I'm running a Tial SS housing on mine so my turbine is actually a little lighter than his in weight. But tuning makes a difference as well as the variation in the head design when made slight changes to the internals of the 2007+ tC's.

His




Mine

[sfwg]

his

[coyote]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Stickier tires isn't the problem w subie 5x100. Wide offset cause fast wear down.

Incorrect

The combination of sticky tyres, high cornering forces and high brake temps kills those old wheel bearings.

I had two sets of sets of hubs at one stage. One on the car and one getting new bearings.

Went through 7 sets of bearings - using standard wheels.

The move to 5x114.3 came with bigger hubs and bearings, but even the newer 5x100s are much better than the old ones.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

The 5x100 was by deducing what wheels have been used on the spy shots and display models/prototypes.

Prototypes yes...but not the display models. Somebody use CSI on the new high res pic and see if the rims are 5x100...

Prototypes are prototypes...there could be some out there with 5x100 and 5x114.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by sfwg

his

You do not pass go, do not collect $200...lol. Anyhow, he wants my torque curve.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Do you know how a Centrifugal supercharger works? Properly designed? That don't make much sense to say that when the companies that produce S/C'ers have been doing it for decades.

again, who's talking about centrifugal superchargers? the whole discussion was about a possible TRD Roots SC... and in that regard there are little to no companies making roots kits for import engines let alone small displacement 4 cylinders. that's what i mean by "properly designed". most of the roots kits use older eaton units and are most likely not intercooled.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Intercoolers add thermal efficiency but it's not a deciding factor between a S/C'ers efficiency compared to a turbo's efficiency.

i never said intercooling had anything to do with efficiency. when i talk about intercooling it is in regards to the fact that most import roots SC kits dont use them. as for efficiency, the newest TVS and twin screw designs have efficiency in the 70%, close to 80% range.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Thanks for confirming what I already wrote. If it's a V8 then the difference is minor from S/C to turbo on the same applications. Everything you listed was American Muscle V8's. They are not Import Motors.

that's my point. all the hig quality roots SC kits are made for domestic large displacement engines. if someone cared enough to use them on a small displacement engine, i think you'd be surprised just how much you can get out of them.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Bro, Minimal lag is basically nonexistant. I'm talking "Not noticeable" minimal lag. And lag in a turbo is still more efficient than the Centrifugal S/C design. And the Torque curve of a turbo depends on the turbo. You can change the curve simply by changing the turbine size. Not all S/C'ers produce a flat torque curve just like not all turbo sizes create a flat curve. You shouldn't generalize in that fashion because of a little thing called tuning.

again, what's with you and centrifugals? no one is talking about centrifugals. the whole discussion was about roots blowers. and roots blowers have NO lag, make boost linearly, and DO give you a flatter tq curve boost for boost.

this is a 2.0L ecotec (on 100 octane)



and this is a RSX with a custom lysholm kit (@16.4 psi)



find me a turbo 2.0L 4 cyl that makes that much power with a flatter tq curve.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Power is not included into subject of Efficiency.

who said anything about power?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Prototypes yes...but not the display models. Somebody use CSI on the new high res pic and see if the rims are 5x100...

Prototypes are prototypes...there could be some out there with 5x100 and 5x114.

The race car used 5x100. It will be 5x100.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by coyote

Incorrect

The combination of sticky tyres, high cornering forces and high brake temps kills those old wheel bearings.

I had two sets of sets of hubs at one stage. One on the car and one getting new bearings.

Went through 7 sets of bearings - using standard wheels.

The move to 5x114.3 came with bigger hubs and bearings, but even the newer 5x100s are much better than the old ones.

which car did you try em on? Also 7 bearings? In how many yrs? Cuz if you gotta replace bearing that much, there's something wrong. Even w my 17x7.5 w crazy offset plus half dozen track time in summer, it lasting me for 4 yrs.

Friend's GC6 on track Hoosier R series, summer Potenza RE series and winter some kind of Pireilli. Track close to dozen time in summer plus auto-x half dozen times, 3~4 times in winter and hub lasted him 9yrs (close to 10 yrs)... & MMP track isn't slow corning and it require pretty hard braking.