Help me decide.

[jadewbj]

Your best bet would be to do all the bolt on's, intake, header back exhaust, and an E85 tune. So far that is what I am seeing as making the most power without going to FI.

As far as FI goes the AVO kit is affordable and makes good power.

[CaptainSlow]

...pretty much.

You can do a lot to bring the HP up, but just know that you might be killing the reliability, and causing other issues down the line. Just keep in mind that the car was engineered as a whole...every part was engineered to withstand the stresses that would be generated with that powertrain. So, once you start messing with that in any significant way, you're looking at issues...clutch, driveshaft, rear end, transmission, fuel delivery, etc.

If you're looking for something with more HP/torque out of the gate, buy something else...sorry, just being honest. I've lost thousands of dollars in that pursuit before...maybe tens of thousands. It's just not worth it in the end, unless you have a limitless budget and another car to drive once this one blows up.

[CaptainSlow]

As a follow-up to my post above, let me tell you the story of my Mazdaspeed3.

I bought a brand new MS3 (shown below) in 2008/2009. I bought the car knowing that I wanted to modify it. I was coming out of a couple of N/A cars (first, a 2006 GTO and then a 2001 SVT Focus), so this was getting back into turbos. I had a number of turbo cars before this one…2 Evo VIII’s, a turbo Integra, turbo Integra Type-R, an FD, and turbo EG Civic hatch. I wanted to get back into boost, and build something really fast. I (unfortunately) did not do my research before picking the MS3 as a platform from which to build, but I really liked the reviews I read on the handling, and loved the exterior styling.

I started in with small stuff…didn’t really make much of a difference. Tried an OTS tuning system with not the greatest luck. Right there, $1000+ with no noticeable difference. I tried different setups, then found my stock CDFP (cam driven fuel pump) was weak, so I purchased an upgraded one. I still had an impossible time trying to get my AFRs right, and suffered from repeated issues with knock retard (a phrase I wish I never had even heard of), where the engine will basically pull timing once it senses a certain level of knock. A great feature, but I could never figure out why it was knocking. I had used the most conservative OTS map I could…seeing AFRs that were literally causing flame out the tailpipe, but still it knocked…

I changed intercooler setups. I changed intake setups. I gave up and went back to stock (ish), then got tired of that again and decided to try again. I bought another tuner and FMIC and decided to give it a go…no luck, still problems with knock retard. I decided to try a professional tune. Scheduled the appointment and everything, only to drive 4 hours (one way) and have them tell me they can’t do anything for me because my clutch was slipping.

Went out and bought an upgraded clutch and had it installed. Made the car a BITCH to drive. Still suffered from knock retard…decided to try a meth/water injection kit. Seemed to help a little, but didn’t solve everything.

About this time I decided to take a trip to DC…a 2 day drive. On the way back, going through the tunnel I decided to get on it to hear the turbo spool (we don’t have tunnels around, so it’s always a fun experience when I find one). Turbo spools, and BOOM. Revs go down to nothing, all lights come on…giant cloud of smoke behind me. I barely coast out of the tunnel and pull along the side of the road. Blew a hole right through the block.

Had to rent a trailer and tow it back to MI (from PA). Sat at a repair shop for 4 months while they tried (in vain) to find a used engine. Ended up having to order a brand new engine ($6k). Took the car completely back to stock and sold it not much later. Just couldn’t even look at it anymore.

So, that’s my story – take it as you will, but let it be a warning that when you chase that dragon you may get bit

The car:

[13 FR-S Veteran]

Originally Posted by husker741

Cool, thanks. So the Perrin headerback is probably my best option then? Catted or catless? And is the Visconti tune easy to get back to stock so I don't void warranty?

You may want to consider the Unichip. There's a couple threads on here about it already. This piggy back computer is picking up speed with FR-S entusiasts here.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

So, that’s my story – take it as you will, but let it be a warning that when you chase that dragon you may get bit

You should've just bought the Cobalt SS/TC sitting in the background in your 2nd pic lol. Those things can hit 400whp with not a whole lot of $$. I had one.

[CaptainSlow]

Originally Posted by Synack

You should've just bought the Cobalt SS/TC sitting in the background in your 2nd pic lol. Those things can hit 400whp with not a whole lot of $$. I had one.

There were a lot of "should've's" with that car....that was one of them. I decided to go with the MS3 over the Cobalt (I test drove both) because of the looks, I liked the hatchback design and interior styling.. Trust me...there were more than a few nights I wished I had chosen differently.

[GT86drifter]

2J your SC

frs is not for you.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

There were a lot of "should've's" with that car....that was one of them. I decided to go with the MS3 over the Cobalt (I test drove both) because of the looks, I liked the hatchback design and interior styling.. Trust me...there were more than a few nights I wished I had chosen differently.

Aw, you didn't like SS/TC interior?

[CaptainSlow]

Aw, you didn't like SS/TC interior?

Getting off topic, but it wasn't that I didn't like the Cobalt's interior, it was that I liked the MS3's interior better.

[MVJ1975]

Attempting to improve an SC430 is a fool's errand. It's easier to name what Lexus did right with that car, it's a far shorter list. They're horribly overweight disasters with anemic V8s and suspensions that are apparently made from old rebar and tinkertoys. An engine swap isn't going to help it much.

[M1schiev0us]

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

Attempting to improve an SC430 is a fool's errand. It's easier to name what Lexus did right with that car, it's a far shorter list. They're horribly overweight disasters with anemic V8s and suspensions that are apparently made from old rebar and tinkertoys. An engine swap isn't going to help it much.

Indeed, there's a reason why Top Gear named that car "the worst car in the history of the world made by a manufacturer that should have known better"

[ame]http://youtu.be/nenQI4HrUhk[/ame]

It should also be noted they cited the LFA and FRS as counter examples of Toyota making good on their sportier AE86/Celica All-trac/MR2/Supra heritage.

[tech4pdx]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

As a follow-up to my post above, let me tell you the story of my Mazdaspeed3.

I bought a brand new MS3 (shown below) in 2008/2009. I bought the car knowing that I wanted to modify it. I was coming out of a couple of N/A cars (first, a 2006 GTO and then a 2001 SVT Focus), so this was getting back into turbos. I had a number of turbo cars before this one…2 Evo VIII’s, a turbo Integra, turbo Integra Type-R, an FD, and turbo EG Civic hatch. I wanted to get back into boost, and build something really fast. I (unfortunately) did not do my research before picking the MS3 as a platform from which to build, but I really liked the reviews I read on the handling, and loved the exterior styling.

I started in with small stuff…didn’t really make much of a difference. Tried an OTS tuning system with not the greatest luck. Right there, $1000+ with no noticeable difference. I tried different setups, then found my stock CDFP (cam driven fuel pump) was weak, so I purchased an upgraded one. I still had an impossible time trying to get my AFRs right, and suffered from repeated issues with knock retard (a phrase I wish I never had even heard of), where the engine will basically pull timing once it senses a certain level of knock. A great feature, but I could never figure out why it was knocking. I had used the most conservative OTS map I could…seeing AFRs that were literally causing flame out the tailpipe, but still it knocked…

I changed intercooler setups. I changed intake setups. I gave up and went back to stock (ish), then got tired of that again and decided to try again. I bought another tuner and FMIC and decided to give it a go…no luck, still problems with knock retard. I decided to try a professional tune. Scheduled the appointment and everything, only to drive 4 hours (one way) and have them tell me they can’t do anything for me because my clutch was slipping.

Went out and bought an upgraded clutch and had it installed. Made the car a BITCH to drive. Still suffered from knock retard…decided to try a meth/water injection kit. Seemed to help a little, but didn’t solve everything.

About this time I decided to take a trip to DC…a 2 day drive. On the way back, going through the tunnel I decided to get on it to hear the turbo spool (we don’t have tunnels around, so it’s always a fun experience when I find one). Turbo spools, and BOOM. Revs go down to nothing, all lights come on…giant cloud of smoke behind me. I barely coast out of the tunnel and pull along the side of the road. Blew a hole right through the block.

Had to rent a trailer and tow it back to MI (from PA). Sat at a repair shop for 4 months while they tried (in vain) to find a used engine. Ended up having to order a brand new engine ($6k). Took the car completely back to stock and sold it not much later. Just couldn’t even look at it anymore.

So, that’s my story – take it as you will, but let it be a warning that when you chase that dragon you may get bit

The car:

This story hits home because I've been there, but spun a main bearing instead. I think it really has a lot to do with the platform you are going into. Some mod better than others. The FT86 holds promise in this arena, not counting QC issues.

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

You can do a lot to bring the HP up, but just know that you might be killing the reliability, and causing other issues down the line. Just keep in mind that the car was engineered as a whole...every part was engineered to withstand the stresses that would be generated with that powertrain. So, once you start messing with that in any significant way, you're looking at issues...clutch, driveshaft, rear end, transmission, fuel delivery, etc.

If you're looking for something with more HP/torque out of the gate, buy something else...sorry, just being honest. I've lost thousands of dollars in that pursuit before...maybe tens of thousands. It's just not worth it in the end, unless you have a limitless budget and another car to drive once this one blows up.

Not to say you are wrong that tuning a car car lead to issues but I just wanted to offer an alternate point of view.

From what I understand the idea of this car from the go was for it to be modified. I have read it in brochures from Toyota, heard it in videos from both Toyota and Subaru.

There are quite a few high horsepower 86's out there on stock blocks, and not one that I have heard of as blowing yet. That amazes me. It looks like this motor was built pretty stout.

Most of the horror stories I have heard over the decade I have been doing this are from "garage tuners" who have little experience or know how and start doing more than basic bolt on's by themselves.

If you stay with bolt on's and a tune or go with a kit like Avo or Vortech and have it installed by a licensed dealer you should be fine.

[chuy21]

Originally Posted by Synack

You should've just bought the Cobalt SS/TC sitting in the background in your 2nd pic lol. Those things can hit 400whp with not a whole lot of $$. I had one.

This man does not lie.