Supercharger or Turbo ?

[hachirokudreams]

o turbo for sure
im ready to slap that garrett tc
on that brand new car
god 2011 hurry up

[RegisBou]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Eh... I'll just add this to the discussion for shits and grins...

Anyway, if it's too complicated to set up a roots blower on a boxer motor, I guess I'd prefer a turbo over a centrifugal. But... first I want to see what TRD brings to the table before I begin yet another car experiment... I'd rather let them do the R&D...

According to that graph you have the BEST tuners in the world lol. I have never seen a "slap on" turbo with that nice a torque curve. Or even a factory turbo for that matter. Same with the superchargers.

But yes, that is a good comparison. I think the centrifugal is great in terms of keeping NA properties, just you yield more power with the same power curve/throttle response as an NA.

Do you have any graphs of stock TRD cars? I will check and see if I can find some

[Matador]

Originally Posted by RegisBou

According to that graph you have the BEST tuners in the world lol. I have never seen a "slap on" turbo with that nice a torque curve. Or even a factory turbo for that matter. Same with the superchargers.

But yes, that is a good comparison. I think the centrifugal is great in terms of keeping NA properties, just you yield more power with the same power curve/throttle response as an NA.

Do you have any graphs of stock TRD cars? I will check and see if I can find some

Do you know how to read a graph?

[MtnDrvr86]

Originally Posted by RegisBou

According to that graph you have the BEST tuners in the world lol. I have never seen a "slap on" turbo with that nice a torque curve. Or even a factory turbo for that matter. Same with the superchargers.

But yes, that is a good comparison. I think the centrifugal is great in terms of keeping NA properties, just you yield more power with the same power curve/throttle response as an NA.

Do you have any graphs of stock TRD cars? I will check and see if I can find some

the graph shows where BOOST comes in, not the torque or power made at given RPM

[Jordo!]

Those are theoretical/typical boost curves for different kinds of FI...

From that graph you can infer potential available power under WOT conditions. The moral of the story is, given air pumps/compressors with the the ability to move similar volumes of air under load, a roots blower tends to produce usable boost earlier than a turbo but run out of breath sooner, while a turbo tends to produce usable boost sooner than a centrifugal blower, but also run out of breath sooner.

Individual results may vary...

Also, that graph certainly highlights why a roots+turbo set up, though a bit more complicated and a lot more expensive, is pretty damn ideal.

It also suggests that centrifugal blowers aren't really all that great for a small displacement, "torque" challenged" motor relative to a properly sized roots blower or turbo.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Do you know how to read a graph?

To some, it's another language. LMAO

[RegisBou]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Do you know how to read a graph?

I made a mistake big whoop.

Q: Do you know how to make productive posts?
A: No

So what I read it wrong, I wasn't being a jackass in my post no reason for you to treat me like a fucking idiotic moron.

But in relation to my post....have you ever seen a slap on turbo with such a flat torque curve?

I was just trying to explain (to what I accidentally interpreted the graph as) that most $5,000 slap on kits mean NOTHING without supporting mods.

I was asking a serious question in relation to my interpretation of the graph at that given point in time...

[RegisBou]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Those are theoretical/typical boost curves for different kinds of FI...

From that graph you can infer potential available power under WOT conditions. The moral of the story is, given air pumps/compressors with the the ability to move similar volumes of air under load, a roots blower tends to produce usable boost earlier than a turbo but run out of breath sooner, while a turbo tends to produce usable boost sooner than a centrifugal blower, but also run out of breath sooner.

Individual results may vary...

Also, that graph certainly highlights why a roots+turbo set up, though a bit more complicated and a lot more expensive, is pretty damn ideal.

It also suggests that centrifugal blowers aren't really all that great for a small displacement, "torque" challenged" motor relative to a properly sized roots blower or turbo.

Appreciate your answer!

Yes twincharging is an extremely effective manner of taking advantage of both F/I systems.

Of course an appropriate engine swap (keeping it NA) would be the preferred manner of increasing performance if weight is comparable to adding both a S/C and a T/C to the engine bay.

Not forgetting about FMIC's (most common method...) I prefer V mounted setups...and all the piping required. Additional oil coolers for the roots charger would be a headache LOL.

Then there's always the question of money. Chassis bracing, suspension setups (can't have 500hp without an appropriate brake/suspension setup)

As for the boxer layout...I don't know what the best option would be in terms of money and compression ratio's...

[ddoouugg]

How do you even put a roots blower on a boxer motor? Two of them? lol. I guess long pipes coming out of the blower going to each bank of 2(?!) cylinders. Seems like a lot of pipe for 2 cylinders lol and a lot harder to setup than on an inline powerplant

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by ddoouugg

How do you even put a roots blower on a boxer motor? Two of them? lol. I guess long pipes coming out of the blower going to each bank of 2(?!) cylinders. Seems like a lot of pipe for 2 cylinders lol and a lot harder to setup than on an inline powerplant

Here you go. Few post ago I posted this

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Some ppl are doin' SC on their Impreza. IIRC Raptor made NA Impreza SC kit for it too. Raptor SC kit

As for Root blower, are you talkin' bout this?

.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Here you go. Few post ago I posted this

I could have sworn there were a few OEM examples too (VW's???), but I guess not?

I'm really not used to envisioning set-ups for engines that aren't in either a V or inline configuration... guess I need to do more research

[Matador]

Originally Posted by RegisBou

I made a mistake big whoop.

Q: Do you know how to make productive posts?
A: No

So what I read it wrong, I wasn't being a jackass in my post no reason for you to treat me like a fucking idiotic moron.

But in relation to my post....have you ever seen a slap on turbo with such a flat torque curve?

I was just trying to explain (to what I accidentally interpreted the graph as) that most $5,000 slap on kits mean NOTHING without supporting mods.

I was asking a serious question in relation to my interpretation of the graph at that given point in time...

Don't get your panties in a bunch. I think you will find that I do infact make productive posts, but if you are going to criticize someone, make sure you know what the heck you are talking about. If I wanted to try and make you feel I a moron I would have berated you, and then shown you graphs of torque curves for slighly tuned vesrions ofToyota's 3S & JZ engines as well as VW's TSFI engines. Not exactly the same shape, but pretty damn nice still.

Try not to be so thin-skinned. I might come off a little abrasive, but that's just me. Trust me, I could be a lot worse.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Try not to be so thin-skinned. I might come off a little abrasive, but that's just me. Trust me, I could be a lot worse.

^ is an educated man
I've learned the most from him, NESW20, oldskool, white comet and a few others here, the very last persons on this forum I'd attempt to bash / hate on.

[YourFearlessLeader]

turbo FTW. its just the ricer thing to do! JK

I overall just like how turbos perform.