Autocar's Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S First Drive Review

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Shevon

2800lbs/200ish hp----right where i expected it to be

i was originally expecting around the same, esp with all the crash safety regs these days. then all the rumors of 1150 kg kept springing up, so i started thinking that maybe just maybe under 2700 lbs was a possibility. i should have known better.

[Shevon]

these are realistic expections to me. i dont plan on modding past 250hp anyway

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by sfwg

i was guessing 2700 but i agree with you. alot of people were hoping for < 2500lbs,turbo, close to 300hp as they could get and a price tag of 20k. gonna disapoint alotta people

Anyone who had those expectations was simply dreaming...and they should spend less time dreaming and more time earning/saving cash, because as I have stated before ...

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

Go ahead and save this post and ready your fingers to hit the quote button:

Scion version will be between 24-27k, and the Subaru version 1-2k higher based on the fact they do not have to deal with "pure" pricing.

Now if they did offer < 2500lbs,turbo, close to / or over 300hp, I would be willing to pay 26-29k because I love the look of this car and the fact that a 370z has no back seats --- as I have small kids.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by cyde01

i was originally expecting around the same, esp with all the crash safety regs these days. then all the rumors of 1150 kg kept springing up, so i started thinking that maybe just maybe under 2700 lbs was a possibility. i should have known better.

if the miata can do it, then why can't this car? there is something deeply wrong with the weight. its either grossly overestimated or the engineers dropped the ball on this one. the collective engineering of toyota/subaru over years of development and they cant even come close to the weight of the miata? how can that be anything but a disappointment? the cars are of similar size, similar engine, similar drivetrain, similar price point....

[sfwg]

Originally Posted by madfast

if the miata can do it, then why can't this car? there is something deeply wrong with the weight. its either grossly overestimated or the engineers dropped the ball on this one. the collective engineering of toyota/subaru over years of development and they cant even come close to the weight of the miata? how can that be anything but a disappointment? the cars are of similar size, similar engine, similar drivetrain, similar price point....

engine weight? rear seating capabilities?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by madfast

It has a broad power curve - it revs to 7500 but there’s no desperate need to wind it that far past the mid-range.


this statement, along with the C&D article where he states the power peak feels like 6500, and along with the torque peak estimate of 170 ft lbs @ 4000 rpm, make me believe this car will have strong mid range and not too much up top.

I think that's probably going to happen, as the clues suggest only cam phasing, no more. (I hope they improve the engine sometime down the line...)

Just remember, you can't "feel" torque, so 170ft-lbs is a total bs number that they coughed up. If the power peak "feels like 6500", I'm going to go out and say it's probably more like 6800-7000, because he probably felt a decrease in torque at 6500, which means the power peak happens a little bit after.

[Spaceywilly]

The autobild article mentions that it pulls strong starting at 3000rpm, so it seems like despite everyone whining about it being high strung, the meat of the power will be between 3000-6500. That is a good thing for driveability I think.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

The autobild article mentions that it pulls strong starting at 3000rpm, so it seems like despite everyone whining about it being high strung, the meat of the power will be between 3000-6500. That is a good thing for driveability I think.

i drive between 3k-5k rpms daily and get more than 30mpgs, my car is high strung but it isnt bad you just have to get used to it, its going from 6200 rpms at 40mph to 8500 rpms at 40mph people that arent used to driving a high strung engine shift too early and complain the car isnt driver friendly, they are just incompetent and shift too early

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

i drive between 3k-5k rpms daily and get more than 30mpgs, my car is high strung but it isnt bad you just have to get used to it, its going from 6200 rpms at 40mph to 8500 rpms at 40mph people that arent used to driving a high strung engine shift too early and complain the car isnt driver friendly, they are just incompetent and shift too early

What is your definition of shifting to early?

[rmagic]

From what I've read on different reviews so far, it doesn't seem that they are too blown away by the performance of the car. I think there could be improvements by time the car is in production. 2800 lb is more of an average weight for that size car and I would say anything under 2700 lbs would be an achievement not over. It sounds to me they just want to make a good-enough car with the right platform so people can get the performance out of it. It's like their goal wasn't to give something high performance out of the box but rather just a fun sports car. When they compare it with Miata, that's the first thing that came to my mind. Maybe to achieve a price tag and the fuel mileage this is the way they had to go. I will still be happy if the car has a lot of potential like s2000 to be a fast track car. but all good so far

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

I've intentionally stayed out of the recent styling debates over the leaked exterior/interior photos as those are the most subjective parts of the car than can easily be modified to the users taste.

These driving impressions are what I've really been waiting for.

All indications are that the early prototypes are awesome (better than a miata even).

Toyobaru will be making constant improvements utilizing all of their recent track data and this baby will only get better right up until launch.

I'm super excited for this car again. Thank you Toyota and Subaru.

Hate to break it to you but driving impressions are subjective as well.

[Mr.Hachi.Roku]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I think that's probably going to happen, as the clues suggest only cam phasing, no more. (I hope they improve the engine sometime down the line...)

Just remember, you can't "feel" torque, so 170ft-lbs is a total bs number that they coughed up. If the power peak "feels like 6500", I'm going to go out and say it's probably more like 6800-7000, because he probably felt a decrease in torque at 6500, which means the power peak happens a little bit after.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hachi.Roku

Sorry, I meant you can feel torque relative to one motor, but not across motors, because gear ratio/wheel size is always different. You can feel the torque dropping, but you can't feel torque as a quanity, only THROUGH acceleration.

Lemme change that to "decrease in acceleration". Happy now?

[Buggy51]

Hmmm ... out of all these reviews, has anyone ever mentioned if there were visibility problems?

I also wonder if there were any US car magazine reviews...