Subaru BRZ Prototype Review by Car and Driver. Calls it a Knockout.

[aids333]

Originally Posted by no_name

Me too

You can get this now - and could 11 years ago when honda came out with the s2000. Essentially same targets, speed, mpg etc... Different ways of going about it.

Conv vs coupe .. progress

[aids333]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Oh, and as for the price/weight, I'll say this...

If he test drove the auto, that is 100lbs on the manual car right there. Add another 50lbs for up-level model wheels/accessories/etc. (Power seats = weight, foglights = weight, more speakers/better stereo = weight, etc.) and thats 150lbs. I've been through all the factory service manuals for Subaru's over the years (yes, ALL of them) and made a list of all the curb weights for all the models and such over the years, its not abnormal to see 100-200lbs differences in models just due to accessories.

I still think as most of the folks here do that the car will weigh in the 2600lbs range. IF there is a de-contented version (which I hope there will be... Type-RA version anyone???) then it could shed more weight with smaller wheels, no stereo (2004 STI did that here in the states), no spare, no rear seats, etc. it will for sure be 2600lbs or less.


As for the price... $28-30k FULLY LOADED I do expect, but hopefully that includes huge brakes, upgraded suspension, NAV, etc. But if the base model for the Scion isn't close to $20k and for the Subaru close to 22-22k, then I will be upset.

This is after all basically a parts-bin sports car, and if they CAN'T offer one for close to $20k and it stays around $25k, I hope in the future they consider an even less powerful non-DI model with even less content... I have zero interest in a fully loaded $30k Sports car.

Seriously dude? Where can get a 20k sports car right now? Let alone one with RWD.. the TC is 20k.

30k is steep for a rwd 4 cyl. But you know what.. it will still sell. Just because you've got corolla money, doesn't mean toyota is going to sell you a race car.. they'll sell you a corolla.

Save up - the 27k will be worth it. If you don't like it - you can get a Genesis. Or a mustang. Or a civic Si.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Wow I like your speech there except for the parts bin part.. Which MAJOR part of this car is from something else? The way I see it alot of parts from this car will go towards others, but this is by no means a parts bin car...

The entire suspension is parts bin (minus the spring/strut specifications). The basis for the engine is parts bin (part of the new FB engine line, Subaru already has several iterations of it). The rear diff is supposedly parts bin. Heck, even the interior door handles in the photos are from a 2000 Legacy.

There are going to be a lot of other bits and pieces we don't see that are parts bin, and that was the goal of this car as Toyota/Subaru have stated, to keep the price down by using what they could.

Of course the transmission had to be designed for this car, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it closely resembles other Subaru transmissions (its cheaper to modify an existing blank for a part than to make a whole new design from scratch).

Originally Posted by aids333

Seriously dude? Where can get a 20k sports car right now? Let alone one with RWD.. the TC is 20k.

30k is steep for a rwd 4 cyl. But you know what.. it will still sell. Just because you've got corolla money, doesn't mean toyota is going to sell you a race car.. they'll sell you a corolla.

Save up - the 27k will be worth it. If you don't like it - you can get a Genesis. Or a mustang. Or a civic Si.

27k for this car is too much unless its loaded with good stuff as I mentioned. Corolla's are sub-$20k cars, the Mustang V6 starts under $23k and you get 300hp with that but its too heavy and not interested in it anyway.

But keep in mind, other than the direct injection, this is just a RWD converted Subaru platform with a new design chassis. There is no reason for this car to cost even close to $30k.

[serialk11r]

Well the engine isn't really parts bin if they changed the block and internals which they did otherwise it wouldn't have the redline indicated in the photos.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

The entire suspension is parts bin (minus the spring/strut specifications). The basis for the engine is parts bin (part of the new FB engine line, Subaru already has several iterations of it). The rear diff is supposedly parts bin. Heck, even the interior door handles in the photos are from a 2000 Legacy.

Eh, don't think you understand what "parts bin" means. Parts bin means something is 100% identical. If something looks similar it's not parts bin. I mean the door handle is completely different from a 2000 legacy. The FR-S door handle is squared off at the base, not rounded as in a 2000 Legacy.

A different iteration is by definition not parts bin. Plus this engine doesn't even have the same bore stroke as an FB20.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by Aki

Eh, don't think you understand what "parts bin" means. Parts bin means something is 100% identical. If something looks similar it's not parts bin. I mean the door handle is completely different from a 2000 legacy. The FR-S door handle is squared off at the base, not rounded as in a 2000 Legacy.

A different iteration is by definition not parts bin. Plus this engine doesn't even have the same bore stroke as an FB20.

I was slightly wrong, the handles are exactly the same as the 2008-2011 Impreza. But the handle and switch are taken from the Legacy, with the surround being slightly different to accommodate the door panel:



Nothing is 100% identical anymore. The same part can be slightly different in the same car just because of the different trim level of the car, even from different states they can be different.

Does this mean the different part was 100% re-engineered from the ground up? No! The part blanks in Japan or wherever the parts are made are slightly modified per the order. In fact, in Japan parts are made in an "on demand" basis, so its easy and cheap to slightly modify a part and not as complicated as you think.

The engine for example, the EJ25 Turbo in the Forester from 2004 has completely different part numbers from the STI motor. However, the differences are so small between the molds for those blocks that its almost impossible to tell they changed something, yet they have completely different engine designations and power outputs.

The heads on the FT/BRZ engine are probably going to have quite a bit of changes to accommodate the DI but that doesn't mean the motor is going to be 100% different from an FB.

Other than the chasis, the engineers for this car didn't start with a blank slate. We've seen in the articles relating to this car that they used the general architecture from Subaru and went from there, that makes this a parts bin car not something like the LF-A which was designed from the ground up with every bit being 100% engineered just for that car.

Does this mean almost every car is actually a parts bin car? Yes. Its not financially possible for companies to make everything from scratch every time they make a new car.

[coyote]

The fact that it's a "parts bin" car is actually a good thing as it:

a) keeps the price down

b) means there's aftermarket parts support from day 1

c) is basically the same architecture that I've modifying for 17 years

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by coyote

The fact that it's a "parts bin" car is actually a good thing as it:

a) keeps the price down

b) means there's aftermarket parts support from day 1

c) is basically the same architecture that I've modifying for 17 years

Exactly. This is a GOOD thing.

[chulooz]

I <3 the lego-like parts aspect of Subarus.

[70NYD]

pretty sure that the heads will be differnt. suspension will be the same TYPE but not the same.. rates of springs and valving in shocks wil be completly different..
so new chassis, new suspension, new engine (part there of), new tranny,
thats all i care about. everything else can be recycled from a 1950's fiat for all i care (bar the tires and wheels)

[coyote]

Hey 7ONYD, would you like to buy a spare engine?

I'll be slotting an EJ in there as soon as I get mine.

[Giccin]

Hmmm... interesting teal like highlighting there...

And that curb weight is not a pretty number. Nor is the city/hwy.

[Matador]

Whoa @ the sniper thread title change

[iDriveFast]

200hp for 30k? Ill pass if thats anywhere near what theyre thinking