Subaru BRZ Prototype Review by Car and Driver. Calls it a Knockout.

[CyberFormula]

Used 350z > 370z

my friend

[Buggy51]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

I have to agree and disagree. While more and more people are buying automatics, the percentage of manual drivers is surely decreasing...but that doesn't mean manufacturers are going to stop making performance cars with MTs. So what if there are fewer MT drivers as long as the MT cars are still there for me to buy?

Another thing I don't get is why we [MT drivers] give a crap about what Joe Schmoe driver is doing with his left foot. If I buy a Corvette and I'm driving around town loving my car and I see another Corvette, I'm not going to start wondering...hm I wonder if that ahole has an automatic or a manual. Truth is, I just don't give a crap what someone else has/drives. Their $, their choice.

There's no argument, an MT is more engaging than any other sort of automated transmission, but so what? It's not like I'm switching from first person to third person in a video game. I'm still in the car, shifting my gears with a paddle, turning my wheels with a steering wheel. Instead of 100% engaged, I'm 99.5% engaged? I can probably accept that. (I've only driven friends paddle shifted cars on short drives.) If I'm really that concerned with being one with my car, I might as well cut out the power steering and power everything else. I should have to feel those gears turning when I roll up my window. Or does that not count?

G37S are boring cars. My uncle has a 87 Grand National with an automatic transmission and every time we take it out we're freaking drunk with excitement. Don't blame the type of transmission a car has, because the car as a whole is boring. Even an MT G37S is boring, more engaging? Yes, but still boring.

To each his/her own. As far as the FRS is concerned, if I get one, it'll be MT only because they've said there won't be any high tech automatic option. So it really leaves just the MT. :happy0180:

Out of curiosity, are we believing that the AT that Toyota/Subaru is using is based off the Aisin one that the Miata currently employs?

I was just reading this from one of the earlier forum posts that links to an older post: http://www.autosite.com/content/shar...le_id_int/1415

^Though I wonder if its more of the Miata being a fun car, and the transmission didn't really matter?

And assuming there's some tinge of truth in this C&D article, has the magazine ever even liked a particular automatic transmission before? Its been a while since I picked up C&D to read.

[ryun84]

Originally Posted by velocity

I have been following this car for a while. I have really liked the concepts from Toyota/Scion. Over the past few weeks, i'm starting to lean towards getting a 370z. This is turning out to be an ugly, under-powered subaru. My RX-8 has "232HP" and 0-60 in 6sec. I'm not going to pay more for a toyota/subaru that has worse performance!! The front looks good, but the tail lights are terrible!!!

If you've been following this car for "a while" like you say, you would also know that comments like yours have been dished out for "a while" as well. Comments complaining about "Oh this car sucks, it doesn't have XXX hp and 0-60 in X.XX seconds!" If you've followed for "a while" you'd probably have also read how annoyed many of us are with these comments. If you don't care about power:weight and live your life "one quarter mile at a time", then go suck a 'Stang and GTFO.

[velocity]

Originally Posted by ryun84

If you've been following this car for "a while" like you say, you would also know that comments like yours have been dished out for "a while" as well. Comments complaining about "Oh this car sucks, it doesn't have XXX hp and 0-60 in X.XX seconds!" If you've followed for "a while" you'd probably have also read how annoyed many of us are with these comments. If you don't care about power:weight and live your life "one quarter mile at a time", then go suck a 'Stang and GTFO.

Notice that I currently own an RX8... so I'm obviously not too worried about "XXX hp and 0-60 in X.XX seconds!" My car is not amazing off the line, but it is fun to drive! Just saying that for $28K, that car has a lot to make up for if it has a 2.0L and 210HP. If they put out something that looked like the concept, i'd probably buy it.. But the spy shots are showing an uninspired POS. For that price, it better come with a Mr. Fusion.

"Used 350z > 370z"?? Have you driven both?? 350z was a terrible car!! I chose the rx8 over it. 370z is far superior.. and guess what... only a few more thousand than the BRZ...

I still have some hope that the production Toyota will look descent and be fun to drive. But they are screwed if they think they can price it with the rx8 or 370z

[blur]

@velocity, it will NOT cost 28K. This article is BS.

[CyberFormula]

370z is terrible.

only good thing to come out of it is the nifty Transmission down shift they put in the Manual.

And RX-8 is even worst than the 370z and 350z. Chassis stiffness is lacking, and engine performance is lacking, in addition to not being lightweight for a car with such a tiny engine.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

"Affordable" as in cheaper than the GTR's ungodly price tag. $50-60 would be nice with Z06 performance.

I actually think the GT-R price:performance wise is a damn bargain. As is the z06, and you won't get either new for $60k. Total pipe dream, and a Toyota with Z06 performance at a bargain basement price would be the performance deal of automotive history. I think $50-$60k for a Toyota would buy you C6 Corvette Performance at best.

Originally Posted by MiguelAE86

PS - ha, btw, you guys should see my High-school parkinglot! 370Z, Gencoupe (x2), 2009 Corvette C6 (he's 17), VW R32, 2JZ-240SX, 3 Speed3's, etc. (All ages 16-17) ha!

I think it's absolutely retarded that parents allow kids that young to have cars that fast (gen coupe aside). Absolutely stupid.

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Making a comparison between AT/MT drivers and love making is something I only expected to see on Chevy or Ford forums from middle aged men from Arkansas. As immature as these topics can get, I'm truly surprised to see it on here. Bravo. lol

+1

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Why is it that everybody always relate driving a manual to being a manly man???

Western hangup? Most everywhere else the ability to drive a stick is not considered special.

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes

Real men like the feel of a solid shaft in their hands when they're doing something exciting. We like it to stand firm and erect with precise, solid movements between positions. No flopping around!

Originally Posted by yayforaddison

How did this even turn into an auto vs manual debate??

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1725

And this folks is the million dollar question. WTF is going on in here?

[fernan2]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

370z is terrible.

you must be on drugs! STOP using them.

edit: the only reason i would buy an FT over a 370z is because i dont have the extra cash to buy the 370z.

[fernan2]

Originally Posted by blur

@velocity, it will NOT cost 28K. This article is BS.

oh, but it will cost 28,000. you just dont know it yet!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fernan2

you must be on drugs! STOP using them.

edit: the only reason i would buy an FT over a 370z is because i dont have the extra cash to buy the 370z.

It's funny that I see some people on here saying the 370z is terrible. I haven't driven the new one but the 350z was a blast to drive(The one sports car where the manual was easy to drive). And considering everywhere I read said the car was a big improvement mostly in the interior so I can't agree with any of these guys who say otherwise. Maybe it could be that these guys were expecting it to be really light(2800lbs?) and being really light(CR-Z) doesn't necessarily always mean fun. The one thing I love about the Z unlike most light sporty vehicles that's affordable is that you don't have to rev to the moon to enjoy its powerband. The engine is way better than any high rev 4 banger I've driven and the handling felt go-kart like.

[S13Kuro]

Originally Posted by dominican

It's been pretty much established that this has very unverified figures, and that it's basically a filler article until the car is released.

Figured as much.

[fernan2]

^^^^ A co-worker of mine has a 370z and i get to drive it once in a wile, and the Z is awesome! you feel like ur inside a spaceship, and everybody is looking at you. plus the torque feels great, it just pushes you back to the seat. So i think that who ever says that they hate the car obviously has never driven one.

[WingsofWar]

I drove the 370z and it was phenomenal, i really liked its presence on the road. The rx8 had shit for balls but it rotates better than anything iv driven to date from the factory. The 350z wasn't as impressive as I thought it was going to be, but i guess i was a bit expecting similar performance or better from a 300zxTT because i owned a 92TT in 99.

[Hounddub]

For those of you who think that the FT will be overpriced in North America, consider that the likely price for me in Singapore will be SGD$165,000....that's a WHOLE lot more than you guys! (oh, for those who need to know what that is in USD.... that's $130,000)