Engine Swap ...

[chulooz]

But its Yamaha, because race car!

[Snaps]

^ +1 XD

Of course Toyota can do it... But Yamaha does it better. Fluid Dynamics (flow) is by no means whatsoever a simple thing. Bringing in the absolute professionals (hopefully) guarantee's you're going to get it right.

Getting Toyota to do Yamaha's job would be like getting a Physicist instead of a Rocket Scientist to build a rocket. Sure, the Physicist would be able to design a rocket, but the Rocket scientist would build a much better one becuase they have more experience, more education in that specific area, etc....

As for the Honda comment - I'm not sure? Maybe Honda employs it's own fluid dynamic engineers to do the headwork on their cars? That said - Yamaha is part of/part owned by Fuji Heavy Industries, isn't it? Then it makes sense for Toyota to outsource fluid dynamics to them instead of employing more people?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Snaps

^ +1 XD

Of course Toyota can do it... But Yamaha does it better. Fluid Dynamics (flow) is by no means whatsoever a simple thing. Bringing in the absolute professionals (hopefully) guarantee's you're going to get it right.

Getting Toyota to do Yamaha's job would be like getting a Physicist instead of a Rocket Scientist to build a rocket. Sure, the Physicist would be able to design a rocket, but the Rocket scientist would build a much better one becuase they have more experience, more education in that specific area, etc....

As for the Honda comment - I'm not sure? Maybe Honda employs it's own fluid dynamic engineers to do the headwork on their cars? That said - Yamaha is part of/part owned by Fuji Heavy Industries, isn't it? Then it makes sense for Toyota to outsource fluid dynamics to them instead of employing more people?

No. Toyota owns a chunk of Yamaha.

[Mr.Jay]

Also Yamaha has gad a hand in every sports car Toyota has made in some shape or form

why break tradition

[Dimman]

I think in the case of Yamaha, it's 'Because Racebike'.

But the point is it's rather traditional for Toyota and Yamaha to work together ever since Nissan blew them off back in the old days, and instead of using the Yamaha-offered DOHC crossflow L6, went with their own silly intake-and exhaust-ports-on-the-same-side L6 in the Fairlady Z.

I believe that Yamaha were also a part of the Denso/Toyota team that worked on the original D4-S.

Here's something to think about. Look at the power and torque gains (with minimal RPM increase) on the 2GR from non D4-S Camry version to D4-S IS350 version.

Now imagine the improvement on the decade-old BEAMS architecture. Now update them both to current tech standards.

[Marrk]

Dimman, you sound enthusiastic, so that's encouraging.

I'm not familiar with all of these Toyota and Lexus engines, but I have driven the 2011 Lotus Evora with a Camry engine in it. Do you happen to know which Camry engine is in that Evora and, specifically, whether or not it had the D-4S heads?

Thanks.

[serialk11r]

That's a 2GR-FE no D4-S, almost stock power.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Here's something to think about. Look at the power and torque gains (with minimal RPM increase) on the 2GR from non D4-S Camry version to D4-S IS350 version.

that's a little unfair comparison based on application. the IS350 is supposed to have the latest and greatest. and the price/market position reflects that. the camry is a soccer mom car that happens to have a 270 hp V6...

Originally Posted by Marrk

Do you happen to know which Camry engine is in that Evora and, specifically, whether or not it had the D-4S heads?

lotus uses the regular 2GR-FE, so no D-4S...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Dimman, you sound enthusiastic, so that's encouraging.

I'm not familiar with all of these Toyota and Lexus engines, but I have driven the 2011 Lotus Evora with a Camry engine in it. Do you happen to know which Camry engine is in that Evora and, specifically, whether or not it had the D-4S heads?

Thanks.

I'm not 100% sure on what Lotus did with the Evora. It is the 2GR I was talking about, but there may have been some packaging issues as the IS350's (with the D4-S) is longitudinal and the Camry's (without) is transverse which is how the Evora's is mounted. And the heads are obviously different. Plus Lotus tends to muck about with the stuff a bit themselves (their programming of the Camry's auto trans is supposed to be much better). I think the press would have been more vocal about the D4-S and it being 'Lexus-powered', but don't know for sure. I'll look into it, as I'm a bit curious now...

A more relevant driving comparison would likely be a Camry and IS350 back-to-back. Just straight line acceleration, as the handling edge of the IS350 would probably throw things off.

My enthusiasm comes from a 1JZGTE, with 'Yamaha' stamped on the timing cover.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by madfast

that's a little unfair comparison based on application. the IS350 is supposed to have the latest and greatest. and the price/market position reflects that. the camry is a soccer mom car that happens to have a 270 hp V6...



lotus uses the regular 2GR-FE, so no D-4S...

It's not a comparison in that way. It's more to show what the difference between that run-of-the-mill motor and one that has the 'latest and greatest' is.

This car will come with the latest and greatest version.

[82mm 4g63]

Meh, Yamaha tuned heads aren't all that exciting to me. I don't plan on driving around in an N/A car all that long so all that Yamaha science is going to waste on my car.

That being said, to me, a 200hp 2-liter is a 200hp 2-liter. I would prefer a strong foundation to work on, knowing that there is more power to squeeze out of it over a car that is pretty much as good as it's going to get. 200hp with room to improve > 200hp at its best.

[Dimman]

Anyone know if the BEAMS (Yamaha) 3S numbers on Wiki are correct?

If we take the 10+ years-old top hp BEAMS at 206 hp @ 7600 and 159 lb-ft @ 6400 and apply half the BMEP gains (at hp/tq peak) at the same % rpm increase for power/tq peak between the Camry and IS350 motors we end up with 223 hp @ 7800 and 165 lb-ft @ 6600.

Alternatively if the auto trans motor numbers are correct (same torque at way lower rpm?) we start with 197 hp @ 7000 and 159 lb-ft @ 4800 and end up with 213 hp @ 7200 and 165 lb-ft @ 4900.

Not exactly scientific, but what I'm getting at is that there is room for improvement over the old BEAMS 2.0L.

[Leeky]

Yes the Wiki figures are correct for the Beams.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Leeky

Yes the Wiki figures are correct for the Beams.

Then this is what people should be getting excited about. Look at the torque figure on the auto-trans model. Almost 160 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm!

If Yamaha has more leeway to choose a better bore-stroke ratio, than they did with the ZZ motors, and can pick an 86mm x 86mm like in the BEAMS, then add 10 years of technical know-how improvements, the boxer's superior balancing, and a D4-S system that may be 2nd generation, it will be spectacular.