2014 C7 Chevrolet Corvette

[Wes B.]

Originally Posted by JayNutter

How many cars perform as well as a base Corvette for under 50k?

Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca Edition -- $49,990

I'd take that Mustang over any base Corvette, and probably even over the Z06.

[Wes B.]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

They're comparing it to the N63 (402/440, 503 lbs) not the S63 (565/500, weight unknown). And official figures aren't out for the LT1 yet. GM has only said 450+. Most people have assumed that to simply mean 450, ignoring the +. I'll wait for the January 13th.

While official power figures have yet to be released, GM has said that the LT1 will be "delivering an estimated 450 horsepower" (http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...mallBlock.html). They do not say 450+.

In my own opinion, the LT1 should deliver at least 550 horsepower to keep up with the power per liter of Ford's Coyote 5.0l V8. As I said before, if I were given the choice between a base Corvette or a Boss 302 Laguna Seca, I'd choose the Mustang.

[GTB/ZR-1]

If the whole financial crisis hadn't hit, the C7 may have been, very likely, mid-engine...

Being a Corvette guy since I've been abt 6, I always have a soft spot for them, especially my heavily-modded ZR-1 I've had going on 18 years.

I had a heavily-modded GT-R just prior to getting my FR-S & preferred it to the 2 C6 Z06s I've owned--it just did everything better, performance-wise. I had an opportunity to go C6 ZR1, but kept my GT-R instead @ the time (I figured the same would be true as the Z06s).

All that minutiae being stated, I think passing judgement on a car that we've really not seen in its true flesh is a bit premature, IMO.
I personally think I will really like the car--save the rear end, unless it's much better than the renderings.
And the performance will be a good bit beyond the C6 platform.

Can't wait to flog one!

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by JayNutter

If things keep progressing like it has been the last few generations the next Corvette will be an absolute beast.

The interior may not be up to the euro-luxury standard, but it is still a Chevy. I am fine with the interior the way it is as long as it still performs like super cars that cost twice the price. Who buys a sports car and says "hey look at this corinthian leather, and the amazing hand stitched steering wheel"? We all buy a sports car for the fun of it. I would take a Corvette over an M3 any day of the week.

How many cars perform as well as a base Corvette for under 50k? How many super cars perform like the Z06 and cost under 100k? (yeah, yeah the GTR).

A Chevy Corvette is not about luxury and refinement, it is about pure performance. American car for the unrefined American.

Why buys a sports car with cheap plastic interior bits, a very dated heads up display and a flat dash. I would feel jaded spending that much on a car, especially a Chevy because it'll feel like I'm driving a rental.

Who says it can't have nice interior. TBH, this has always been the weak point with American cars; that lack of detail, especially in the interior where you spend most of your time when driving.

[Wes B.]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Preliminary /= estimated. How about power/lbs?

Boss Coyote is 444/380 and 430lbs. 1.03/.88
LT1 is 450/450 and 465lbs. .96/.96


In any case, you've made it clear that you'll never buy a GM product regardless of how good it is or could be because your bias is already set.

I'm just going off the numbers that GM has been releasing. The estimate is 450 horsepower. To say that the production engines will put out more power is foolish unless conclusive testing has been done and results released.

I honestly don't care about power per pound because it's not a very useful comparative ratio. Power per liter is. The fact is that 450 horsepower from a performance-oriented 6.2l V8 is just not that impressive.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by RRnold

Why buys a sports car with cheap plastic interior bits, a very dated heads up display and a flat dash. I would feel jaded spending that much on a car, especially a Chevy because it'll feel like I'm driving a rental.

Who says it can't have nice interior. TBH, this has always been the weak point with American cars; that lack of detail, especially in the interior where you spend most of your time when driving.

Spend most of the time driving? Make that ALL the time, unless you do some ghost ridin'

But seriously, the cheap interior has been something everyone has been saying for a long time now. GM has no excuse to deliver if they want to show that they listen to buyers, I agree it's a great performance machine and I don't think they need to prove that once again, time to refine.

[Wes B.]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Why is power per liter more important than power per pound? Displacement is an arbitrary number in terms of actual performance. Weight matters. Power matters. Fuel efficiency matters. External engine size matters. Displacement doesn't mean **** if the results are the same.

Displacement is far from an arbitrary number. It measures the volume of all cylinders in one combustion cycle. If an engine has more volume, it should produce more power because more fuel and air can undergo combustion in that one cycle. More power is generally equal to better performance. So, yes, displacement does matter, and, no, it most certainly isn't an arbitrary number in terms of actual performance.

Bottom line: I won't be impressed until GM can yank at least 550 naturally aspirated horsepower from the LT1 straight from the factory.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Wes B.

I honestly don't care about power per pound because it's not a very useful comparative ratio. Power per liter is. The fact is that 450 horsepower from a performance-oriented 6.2l V8 is just not that impressive.

Power per pound is more relevant. Power per liter is meaningless unless you are displacement-limited by class rules.

One reason the Mustang weighs so much more than the Corvette is the bigger, heavier (though significantly smaller-displacement) DOHC engine.

OHV V8 Mustangs used to weigh less than Corvettes.

Smaller-displacement engines will *naturally* make more power/liter, and DOHC multivalve will *naturally* make more power/liter vs. OHV 2v, but that doesn't make them better powerplants for sports/sporty cars.
Given the same power output, I'd go with the smaller, lighter-weight, lower-c.g. engine as a matter of course.

If you are displacement-limited, you'd go with as many cylinders, cams, valves as possible!

[jshadeck]

Power per liter doesnt mean anything for your performance if you put said motor into a 9000lb suv. Power to weight is a much better comparison between two vehicles to estimate performance, however there are obviously many many factors on top of that (traction, gears, aerodynamics, suspension, weight dist/cog, brakes, etc)

[Wes B.]

Originally Posted by ZDan

One reason the Mustang weighs so much more than the Corvette is the bigger, heavier (though significantly smaller-displacement) DOHC engine.

OHV V8 Mustangs used to weigh less than Corvettes.

Smaller-displacement engines will *naturally* make more power/liter, and DOHC multivalve will *naturally* make more power/liter vs. OHV 2v, but that doesn't make them better powerplants for sports/sporty cars.
Given the same power output, I'd go with the smaller, lighter-weight, lower-c.g. engine as a matter of course.

Except that the Corvette engine is both bigger (displacement-wise) and heavier than the Coyote V8 in the Mustang.

Why Ford ever got rid of the Windsor 302 is beyond me. It is such a capable and reliable engine that is far easier to work with than any of the Modular variants.

Smaller displacement engines don't always make more power per liter...

"Given the same power output, I'd go with the smaller, lighter-weight, lower-c.g. engine as a matter of course." -- So, you'd go with the Mustang?

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by Wes B.

Displacement is far from an arbitrary number. It measures the volume of all cylinders in one combustion cycle. If an engine has more volume, it should produce more power because more fuel and air can undergo combustion in that one cycle. More power is generally equal to better performance. So, yes, displacement does matter, and, no, it most certainly isn't an arbitrary number in terms of actual performance.

Bottom line: I won't be impressed until GM can yank at least 550 naturally aspirated horsepower from the LT1 straight from the factory.

I doubt that's realistic in a street vehicle. GM has been refining their pushrod engines for years and years, and it seems more displacement is the only way to extract more power if they want to keep the same engine architecture.

[Wes B.]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

I doubt that's realistic in a street vehicle. GM has been refining their pushrod engines for years and years, and it seems more displacement is the only way to extract more power if they want to keep the same engine architecture.

A ton of companies are creating a whole lot more with less. I guess it's time for GM to revert back to the engine architecture of the LT5 found in C4 ZR-1's.

[Supermassive]

Ive kinda been lurking in this thread, and all I have to say is that nothing Ford or Chevy has made in the last 5 years has been interesting to me. The new Corvette has taken styling cues from the Camaro (those hideous tail lights, angular body lines, exagerated proportions) and that's the exact opposite of what I was hoping for...I was hoping the designers would take inspiration from the svelte sensuous curves of their classic Vettes, instead of finding inspiration in their ugly Camaro.

Ford is no better in my eyes, the Mustang is ugly, they let the retro look get played out and stuck with it too long. I am however interested in the next gen Mustang...we'll see how that pans out when it hits showroom floors.

The only American muscle car I like is the new Viper, it stayed true to its roots while improving almost everything about the car. If I had that kind of money i would have one for sure, can't say the same about Ford and GM...Now if Ford somehow releases a Ford GT successor but made it competitive with the Vette, that would pretty much fulfill my fantasies.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Wes B.

Except that the Corvette engine is both bigger (displacement-wise) and heavier than the Coyote V8 in the Mustang.

Coyote is physically MUCH bigger. I've seen conflicting reports regarding weight, most put the 5.0 as heavier. Suffice it to say they're both in the 435 lb. range.

Why Ford ever got rid of the Windsor 302 is beyond me. It is such a capable and reliable engine that is far easier to work with than any of the Modular variants.

When I build my Daytona Coupe replica, it will have a 347 OHV windsor

Smaller displacement engines don't always make more power per liter...

No, but they should. Smaller displacement is an inherent advantage for power/weight, as they will be able to rev higher.

"Given the same power output, I'd go with the smaller, lighter-weight, lower-c.g. engine as a matter of course." -- So, you'd go with the Mustang?

Again, the Mustang engine is physically MUCH bigger than an LS v8. Weight is similar, I'm betting the LS is slightly lighter if anything. The 5.0 certainly will have a higher c.g.

Has anyone built a 5.0 Coyote FD yet? The LS fits, I have my doubts about the 5.0...