Alignment FAQ Thread

[mashal]

Sticky this

[ayau]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Are you planning on lowering the car? The rear bushings are PITA to install; I figure once I drop the car that I'm just going to grab some adjustable rear LCA. If you're not going for stock class, it's the better choice IMO.

not looking to lower it anytime soon. it will be just more headaches and money spent into the car that won't really benefit a non-track car.

if i can get about -1.5 at the front and rear, i'll be pretty happy. -1.5 should be pretty decent for spirited driving.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Are you planning on lowering the car? The rear bushings are PITA to install; I figure once I drop the car that I'm just going to grab some adjustable rear LCA. If you're not going for stock class, it's the better choice IMO.

Yes the Whiteline Eccentric Bushings for the rear upper control arms are a pain in the ass to install. The arms have to be removed. The OEM bushings have to be pressed out and the Whiteline's pressed in. It cost me $350 for the parts and the install from TF works.

The only reason I did this is because my factory alignment was poor.

REAR LEFT: -0.1
REAR RIGHT: -1.0

So I wanted to correct it and needed a kit. The adjustable rear lower control arms are much easier however you are now changing the factory suspension components and they stick out like a sore thumb. Very little info has been posted about them either in terms of longevity quality etc. So I stuck with the bushings.

Originally Posted by ayau

not looking to lower it anytime soon. it will be just more headaches and money spent into the car that won't really benefit a non-track car.

if i can get about -1.5 at the front and rear, i'll be pretty happy. -1.5 should be pretty decent for spirited driving.

Here is a recommendation, get the parts you need front and back. Talk to a reputable guy like Jeremy from FT86speedfactory or whatever vendor you want. Make sure they have a good return policy on unopened parts.

Make your appointment as mentioned, let them know your intentions, and have them do a baseline alignment check. Should take them about 20 minutes tops to see where you are at in stock form. You may not even need to worry about the rear as some cars have plenty of negative camber in the rear from the factory. Most cars actually have about -1.0 and yours may as well. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYi9wXcC7w"]FT-86, BRZ, FR-S factory wheel alignment review by Whiteline - YouTube[/ame]

If this is the case then just ship back the rear kit to your vendor. Save time and money. Then just have the shop install the front bolts which take 5 minutes a side and get your alignment set how you want it.

[JoeBoxer]

My camber was also off an entire degree more on the right rear. The SPC arms are so easy to install it makes up for them being $300 as opposed to $150 for the whiteline kit in my opinion.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by ayau

thanks for the honest feedback. staying in stock class doesn't concern me since i'm not a hardcore autocrosser. i will sell the factory crash bolts and buy some aftermarket camber bolts.

if i understand this correctly, the whiteline bolts don't move the entire hub assembly when adjusting for negative camber.

As per my video when you turn an eccentric bolt be it the Whiteline or the rear toe eccentric bolt the arm or hub moves like this when the bolt is turned: (White DOT being the bolt being turned)

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer

My camber was also off an entire degree more on the right rear. The SPC arms are so easy to install it makes up for them being $300 as opposed to $150 for the whiteline kit in my opinion.

Can you keep an eye on them over time and see if your alignment stays in spec in the rear in terms of toe and camber and post back?

[JoeBoxer]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Can you keep an eye on them over time and see if your alignment stays in spec in the rear in terms of toe and camber and post back?

Absolutely, Turn in Concepts uses them on their track car also. There are some other LCA's coming to the market soon also. Whiteline and Esoteric should be out soon i've heard of others but haven't seen anything.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Yes the Whiteline Eccentric Bushings for the rear upper control arms are a pain in the ass to install. The arms have to be removed. The OEM bushings have to be pressed out and the Whiteline's pressed in. It cost me $350 for the parts and the install from TF works.

The only reason I did this is because my factory alignment was poor.

REAR LEFT: -0.1
REAR RIGHT: -1.0

So I wanted to correct it and needed a kit. The adjustable rear lower control arms are much easier however you are now changing the factory suspension components and they stick out like a sore thumb. Very little info has been posted about them either in terms of longevity quality etc. So I stuck with the bushings.

sti makes an adjustable rear LCA for the BRZ. i don't know if it's adjustable or not though. i think @Racecomp Engineering has them installed on their BRZ. they may know the answer to this question.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by ayau

sti makes an adjustable rear LCA for the BRZ. i don't know if it's adjustable or not though. i think @Racecomp Engineering has them installed on their BRZ. they may know the answer to this question.

Have to look that one up thanks.

[Captain Insano]

Wow - great thread with good info. Thanks all for posting.

Really second guessing my decision now... I have some Eibach pro-kit springs I was going to have installed at TF Works. OP, Is this same place you had your alignment done? Sure sounds like it, but when I look at their site the address is for 2181 Foster Ave in Wheeling IL. That is different than address on your 2nd alignment sheet. When I asked how they would be doing alignment I was told, "With just the springs we will do neutral non-race alignment for the street...". I assume that is dropping the car on springs and then factory spec alignment. Which I had previously thought would be fine.

I guess I took it for granted when I had Prodrive springs on an STi and the springs came with very specific/exact alignment instructions and settings for after the springs were installed. Eibach pro-kit springs for the BRZ does not come with alignment specs for after install. So I had assumed they wanted OEM alignment.

The real PITA here is there is sooo much variance in the OEM alignment settings. That is a big range across all the factors mentioned.

Should I hold off on my alignment appointment now and get some of the extras mentioned in this thread like camber bolts?

EDIT - Also, OP it looks like the car in the second alignment pic is a Subaru Outback. Were all of the alignments mentioned on your BRZ? I originally assumed so, but confused by that pic. Your last alignment pic indicates it is for a BRZ however.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Have to look that one up thanks.

i forgot to paste the link.

here you go.

http://www.sti.jp/parts/catalogue/br...0250ZR000.html

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Wow - great thread with good info. Thanks all for posting.

Really second guessing my decision now... I have some Eibach pro-kit springs I was going to have installed at TF Works. When I asked how they would be doing alignment I was told, "With just the springs we will do neutral non-race alignment for the street...". I assume that is dropping the car on springs and then factory spec alignment. Which I had previously thought would be fine.

I guess I took it for granted when I had Prodrive springs on an STi and the springs came with very specific/exact alignment instructions and settings for after the springs were installed. Eibach pro-kit springs for the BRZ does not come with alignment specs for after install. So I had assumed they wanted OEM alignment.

The real PITA here is there is sooo much variance in the OEM alignment settings. That is a big range across all the factors mentioned.

Should I hold off on my alignment appointment now and get some of the extras mentioned in this thread like camber bolts?

you have a good point, and that is why i'm not touching any suspension parts until i can grasp all the different things that are going.

it appears that the factory suspension doesn't allow for a lot of adjustments, and when you install aftermarket springs, you may not get the suspension back to its factory specs.

it sounds like it would be a good idea to prepare yourself with an aftermarket suspension kit if something can't be adjusted with the factory suspension parts, such as the whiteline camber bolts. the rear is a bit more tricky and expensive to adjust.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Really second guessing my decision now... I have some Eibach pro-kit springs I was going to have installed at TF Works. When I asked how they would be doing alignment I was told, "With just the springs we will do neutral non-race alignment for the street...". I assume that is dropping the car on springs and then factory spec alignment. Which I had previously thought would be fine.

I guess I took it for granted when I had Prodrive springs on an STi and the springs came with very specific/exact alignment instructions and settings for after the springs were installed. Eibach pro-kit springs for the BRZ does not come with alignment specs for after install. So I had assumed they wanted OEM alignment.

The real PITA here is there is sooo much variance in the OEM alignment settings. That is a big range across all the factors mentioned.

Should I hold off on my alignment appointment now and get some of the extras mentioned in this thread like camber bolts?

There is basically zero camber in the front from the factory. So the drop will give you more negative camber which is actually good. The question is how much? And what is the variance from left to right?

To do it properly I would at the very least pick up the eccentric bolts for the front. That will only cost you $30-$50. TF should not charge you to install them as will be apart of the spring install anyway. You can point Mike to this thread from TF Works, here I am sure he will take care of it for you no charge.

Adding the front bolts adds next to nothing in terms of alignment time, and at least you know you have even camber on the front and can add more down the road if you choose.

The rear is the concern. Most cars already have around -1.0 in the rear, and like in my case and few others we see -1.0 and 0.0 from side to side.

So with the drop in the back you are going to add at least another -.5.
Talk to TF and make sure they have the rear kit in stock just in case, or the control arms whatever you would want.

That way when they get it on the rack and installed you have your ass covered and you can take care of it right then in there.

Just an FYI if they are going to do the rear bushing camber kit, it will take them forever. So make sure you are not waiting there all day.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ayau

i forgot to paste the link.

here you go.

http://www.sti.jp/parts/catalogue/br...0250ZR000.html

>_< So pricey for some stupid arms. I trust TIC and bought quite a few things from them for my GD WRX. As long as the design is solid (read: not Agency Power, there's discussion on those) and some routine checkup is done on the pillowball, everything should be fine.