My IS300 and a skyline...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ill roller

Honestly I could care less where its made as long as the product proves itself... Stance coilovers to my knowledge were previously made in Japan until the main factory closed down. As far as I know they're made in the same place as Buddy Club, Kei Office, HSD, and probably others. From what I have seen in person with Stance, the coilovers are inspected and typically assembled in house in the US before sale.

There's a difference between a quality entry level coilover and a cheap crappy coilover. Just because you personally don't know anything about the quality of a product doesn't make it a shit product. These coilovers are proven, work great, and they have great customer service... Try complaining to Rota that one of your shitty wheels cracked in half and see where that gets you... Unlike with Stance's, I've seen many knockoff wheels crack or break from things that a quality wheel would only bend from. So I don't see how you could even compare that.

As for my cheap tires, it's drifting, I don't think you understand that the point is to burn up the rears. In the front this season I ran AD08's on my E30, and Star Specs on my IS, and clearly my tires fit on my "expensive rims", you can see them on in the pictures.

No binding here, so I guess I'm all good... I've had cars lowered a lot with factory endlinks that did bind as well, and they drove fine too.

please tell me about the fine racing pedigree that stance has.

[Mr.Jay]

wow this turned to shits real fast

not my thing but don't mind the look

I do like your photography tho nice shots!

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

wow this turned to shits real fast

not my thing but don't mind the look

I do like your photography tho nice shots!

inb4 thread delete

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

The whole idea behind a sleeper is nobody expects what's coming. Nobody expects a rat trap 12 year old Audi wagon to set the lap record for the day.

The Oxford comma is indicative of a list. You took sway tuning alone, not as part of the corner balancing and shock adjustment list for dialing in a car that does, unless you bring your scales to the track, take days.

Nobody refers to drift sessions as track days. You want to know why? Because both NASA and the SCCA both refer to HPDEs as track days and they (and BMW CCA and PCA, who also run these events) understand the problem with mixing people who think they're showing up to drift with people who think they're showing up to HPDE.

The car setup stuff came from what I perceived as your misunderstanding of the amount of time (days) it takes to dial in a car right, which includes corner balancing, damper adjusting, AND balance adjustment with sways (simply stated as sway tuning).

But really, who cares if a "rat trap 12 year old audi" sets the lap record for the day? It could be just because the driver is really good too, there are many more variables than there are in drag racing where a sleeper is a useful thing... The whole idea seems dumb to me regardless, why would you not want to have a good looking car?

Who the fuck calls a drift day a drift session? Did you make that up? Unless you're talking about street drifting then that makes no sense. I don't know or care what you think it should be called, but around here, drift day/track day, it's all the same. There's tons of different types of grip driving track days, how do people tell them apart? People aren't dumb enough to show up to the wrong kind of track day around here, dunno about wherever the hell you're from.

Regardless of all your nonsense, it doesn't take days to set up a car right, if anything it's a neverending process. Not only is there always room for improvement, but you're fine tuning as much as you say you are, and you set a car up for one track and it could be terrible on another...That's why a simple and effective setup without overengineering is good for a daily driver / occasional track use car regardless of what type of track time it sees.

In the end, seat time and driver skill are all that matters.

Originally Posted by fatoni

please tell me about the fine racing pedigree that stance has.

Racing pedigree? When did I say anything about a racing pedigree... All I said was that they're proven...

Cyber Evo


Formula D/D1/XDC driver Forrest Wang


Formula D driver Stephan Verdier


Canadian GT champ for 2012:


Formula D/D1/XDC driver Aaron Loosey


2012 ST2 National Championship race winner Alex Talbot


Formula D driver Matt Field


D1GP driver Kazuya Bai


Ilia... Local legend of being a badass


etc...etc...

[TylerLieberman]

^^ Forrest wang is a close personal friend of mine. He's been running stance for years. Took 3 place overall in D1GP USA and took the XDC championship this year. All on stance coilovers and no V8.

[zenki_levin]

The reason why he brought up the subject of driver experience is because it is relevant to the discussion. You can professionally set up a cars suspension, engine and all that crap but if the driver is shitty, the car will perform shitty. And put a good driver in a pos car and he will likely outperform the perfectly setup car. Seat time, skills, seat time, skills!

Who cares if someone calls drift events 'trackdays'. If they take place on a track, it's a trackday.

[chulooz]

Defends stance coils but hates on rota, thats a new one.

I can show you that rota is more 'proven' than stance, but judging by how you deal with the other members it wont compute too well.

[Kilzod]

Those pictures are pretty nice! That is, everything except for the car. Blue tint on red car, huge park bench wing, ridiculous looking wheels/tires. But to each their own, right? If that's how you want your car to look, more power to you.

On a side note, you do not do yourself any justice by acting the fool on the internet; it just makes you look immature. If you want to debate a fact, try to do it in a more mature manner than just spouting, "my e-peen is bigger than yours, because, well, JUST BECAUSE!"

People here are perfectly capable of having a conversation without it turning into a pissing match. If you weren't so defensive about everything everyone had said, and instead had politely disagreed and explained, you probably would not have turned this thread into what it has become.

[zenki_levin]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

that sleepers are lame because they're only for drag racing. Sleepers are just as much a personal expression as a massive wing and hellastretch, and people can and do build road racing sleepers.

Well i agree with you on the sleeper thing. They're massively awesome when done right.

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

So angry.

1. Some people find pleasure in surprising people who take themselves and their cars too seriously by building a faster and better handling shitbox.



2. Drift session? Completely fabricated. I have no idea what you call an amateur drift event. All I know is NOBODY calls them track days because track day has become a term of art to refer to HPDEs.

http://scca-chicago.com/track-days-p...xperience-pdx/

http://nasa-se.com/hpde.php

Your insistence that they're interchangeable is simply wrong, and that is the only point I was making.

3. Days or weeks, spending an entire year chasing a car around, who cares. The only reason we're even talking about it is because you laughed at the idea that someone could take days to get a baseline in a suspension because you thought I was referring to spending days only on sway bar settings.

That is what started that entire line of conversation. You now concede that it can take days or even weeks to set up a suspension competently, but you're arguing a point that wasn't in contention because you can't not be right.

4. The importance of driver experience was never subject to debate. I didn't raise it. You did. And you continue insist upon it for reasons that are unclear to me.

Angry?

1. It seems you just have something to prove... I don't.

2. OK, I guess they copywrited the word trackday, and I've just been imagining everyone calling them trackdays... Nope, you're just blabbering to try to defend yourself.

3. I think you're still not getting it through your head that I was mocking you because I don't care about any of this... You're not building a racecar dude, and if you are, I still don't understand how it in any way relates to my drift car.

4. All you want to talk about is how much better sleepers are than flashy cars because you could blow my doors off with some shitbox audi... I don't care how ugly or fast your car is, I'm not racing you ever, and if you spent half the time out there getting in seat time as you do talking about car setup nonsense, you wouldn't need to worry half as much about the setup.

You're just talking in circles.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

But this isn't a discussion about driver skill. This is a discussion about sleepers, which is limited to the capabilities of a car. Yes, a shitty driver can drive a fast car slowly. A professionally set up car can be set up for the wrong track, or the wrong weather, or the wrong tires. Those things are red herrings to distract from the original point, that sleepers are lame because they're only for drag racing. Sleepers are just as much a personal expression as a massive wing and hellastretch, and people can and do build road racing sleepers.


And the trackday issue is an issue of clarity. Yes, you can call any event that takes place on a track a "track day". That is logically correct. However, that assumes that you're operating in a vacuum where the term track day has not already taken on another meaning, which it has. Do a Google search for "car track day" (because just track day will give you pages upon pages of motorcycle track days) and see how many drift events show up. (Spoilers: None) Now see how many HPDEs show up. Besides, this is a semantics argument that is horrendously tangential to my original point, which is that SLEEPERS ARE NOT JUST FOR DRAG RACING. I incorrectly assumed that when he said track day, he meant HPDE, because that's what everyone means when they say track day. It's the difference between telling someone you drive a Corolla and telling them you drive an AE86. You say Corolla and everyone is going to assume FWD econobox.

ill roller's attempt to pick apart my hypothetical in a vain effort to never be wrong on the internet has led us well down the rabbit's hole.

This isn't any of those things, this is a discussion of my car.

So now an ae86 isn't a corolla just like a drift day isn't a track day... I'm done, you keep talking about trying to never be wrong on the internet, look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by chulooz

Defends stance coils but hates on rota, thats a new one.

I can show you that rota is more 'proven' than stance, but judging by how you deal with the other members it wont compute too well.

That's in no way a new one... Show me a Stance coilover critically failing and endangering a driver and his car the way rotas do, and you may be on to something. Or show me where Stance coilovers are directly knocking off higher quality products in an attempt to take business from them (not being made in the same factory as "higher quality coilovers" and built to the same standards as them). Or show me where Stance coilovers are owned by a shady Filipino company with poor quality control and customer service.

Oh wait, you can't.

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by Kilzod

Those pictures are pretty nice! That is, everything except for the car. Blue tint on red car, huge park bench wing, ridiculous looking wheels/tires. But to each their own, right? If that's how you want your car to look, more power to you.

On a side note, you do not do yourself any justice by acting the fool on the internet; it just makes you look immature. If you want to debate a fact, try to do it in a more mature manner than just spouting, "my e-peen is bigger than yours, because, well, JUST BECAUSE!"

People here are perfectly capable of having a conversation without it turning into a pissing match. If you weren't so defensive about everything everyone had said, and instead had politely disagreed and explained, you probably would not have turned this thread into what it has become.

I think people on here are reading too much into what I'm saying... All I'm doing is debating, the problem is that the people I'm having a discussion with (or at least this LSxJunky guy) seem to for the most part be mentally challenged... Never said I was better than anyone in any way, or trying to have a pissing match, and I'm in no way acting defensive, but when you discuss things it's pretty typical to defend your opinion... Maybe debates for you don't involve people with opinions?

[Kilzod]

Originally Posted by ill roller

I think people on here are reading too much into what I'm saying... All I'm doing is debating, the problem is that the people I'm having a discussion with (or at least this LSxJunky guy) seem to for the most part be mentally challenged... Never said I was better than anyone in any way, or trying to have a pissing match, and I'm in no way acting defensive, but when you discuss things it's pretty typical to defend your opinion... Maybe debates for you don't involve people with opinions?

I'm just saying that in almost every post you've made in this thread, you've been overly defensive about what someone has said. There's no need to resort to bashing if you want to have a proper debate with someone. Give respect, and you'll get respect in return.

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by Kilzod

I'm just saying that in almost every post you've made in this thread, you've been overly defensive about what someone has said. There's no need to resort to bashing if you want to have a proper debate with someone. Give respect, and you'll get respect in return.

It's a discussion forum... You click the quote button and you respond... I suppose if I just ignored everyone's posts then I wouldn't be acting "defensive"? But then why post in the first place?

I'm not bashing anyone, just sharing opinions on an internet car forum... Everyone who has been respectful has gotten a respectful response.

[chulooz]

Stance are Chinese run of the mill untuned production coils, but because rota is filipino its junk?

More competition teams use rota than you can imagine... the cars are being driven so hard that ANY wheel will bend or break eventually but its a lot less costly to replace $200 than $600 each time it happens. This was talked about years ago, catch up.

Critical failing comes from ricers and 'street drifters' that bust up the cars then blame any product they can. I can show you work failures, rays, hre, bbs, you name it... if you abuse a rim it will break.