Help Gmookher decide AP racing Vs Stoptech BBK vs Essex SPRINT KIT

[gmookher]

Well in that case,
no the car
Doesn't see winter per se...


When I hit flagstaff it's in Audi or rover, there's a ton of snow up there right now...

[bpracer]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I'm having the same dilema... but for me it's between AP and Wilwood. AP is arguably the better of the two, but it's also more money, and doesn't have a rear solution yet for the Sprint series. If AP had a rear kit that matched the balance of the stock FRS, I think that would be my first choice. The new kit AP just released isn't as track focused for me, a great kit for the street and for show, but it weighs more, and you'd need 18" wheels.

This is where I'm at. I have 18" wheels for the street but may do 17" for track, more/cheaper/lighter tires.

The Willwood is a larger diameter but thinner rotor, the price point is very good and they do have a dedicated rear brake if you want things to looks purdy. They weigh about the same as the Essex/AP Sprint kit.

The weight savings of the Sprint and Willwood system is a BIG plus, 10lbs less weight per corner. I think CSG said that it was the first time he had ever noticed lighter brakes on a car before.

Unless you are running slicks and 9" wide wheels, I don't see why you would ever want to cart around the rotating mass of a +13" rotor.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

Sorry, read through your posts and I must be missing it?

Nathan

In the same post - above where I addressed you - I wrote that road salt = no Essex. "Does the car see road salt?" is the important question when referring the Essex race kits.

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

In the same post - above where I addressed you - I wrote that road salt = no Essex. "Does the car see road salt?" is the important question when referring the Essex race kits.

I was mostly wondering what about the Essex kit made road salt bad if it's not the seals. The things are made out of double anodized aluminum, I don't see that corroding. Depending on the type of stainless used in the pistons, it should be okay as well.

Nathan

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I was mostly wondering what about the Essex kit made road salt bad if it's not the seals. The things are made out of double anodized aluminum, I don't see that corroding. Depending on the type of stainless used in the pistons, it should be okay as well.

Nathan

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=54

It's not recommended so YMMV with the units' performance in the winter and any warranty work/maintenance/rebuilds that need be to done to service the units.

[SubieNate]

I'd be curious how they'd do on a DD here in SoCal. My guess is just fine but I'm not sure I'd want to risk it. I wish Essex made a street version of the 4 piston.

Nathan

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gmookher

Thanks, I was confused!

back to the game kids: Why do I want the essex ap kit over stoptech?

You want the brakes to stop the car from high speed right? You're going to be boosted; are you going to be driving it like a street car or a racecar?

IMO, that should answer your question. You can't go wrong with any of the kits.

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I'd be curious how they'd do on a DD here in SoCal. My guess is just fine but I'm not sure I'd want to risk it. I wish Essex made a street version of the 4 piston.

Nathan

It should be fine. I used mine on SoCal streets and thankfully we never see salt on the roads. I am planning on examining them regularly.

Btw Stillin has two front AP Racing kits. 6 and 4 pot for the front and only 4 pot for the rear. I really hope Essex makes a rear in the future. I was reading on an Evo forum they were planning on making a rear that would be very light. Not sure if they ever went through with it.

[JoeBoxer]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

He said slotted. That's got J-Hooks. C'mon man...read.

Damn I know how to read when he said slotted I knew he meant anything but drilled, since I am supplying this kit I have a pretty good idea what he is looking for.

[OrbitalEllipses]

[JoeBoxer]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

It should be fine. I used mine on SoCal streets and thankfully we never see salt on the roads. I am planning on examining them regularly.

Btw Stillin has two front AP Racing kits. 6 and 4 pot for the front and only 4 pot for the rear. I really hope Essex makes a rear in the future. I was reading on an Evo forum they were planning on making a rear that would be very light. Not sure if they ever went through with it.

I have pricing for the Stillen kits in vendor classifieds in all the setups.

[Dave-ROR]

Gem: My opinion will come down to what you need, want and can live with.

Your car is boosted, so I'd lean towards a larger kit (WITHIN REASON!). In the Essex Comp system world, that means the endurance system. The negatives there are noise (floating rotors) and higher consumable cost (about 250 per rotor). The positives is you have even more heat capacity than the sprint system (which is beyond what's required for this car on r comps, with suspension, and anywhere near stock power levels already IMO), and brake duct attachment points built in.

The sprint system that I and most others here have (those who have essex kits I mean) has been working FLAWLESSY for me for the two track days I've used them for as well as about 4,000 miles combined street and track use.

General cons of the Essex systems center around their "for the track" nature. They make noise (both the j hooks, which also happens with slotted anyways to a degree, and the fact that the calipers are race calipers and therefore anti-rattle mechanisms are non-existant - so the pads DO rattle in specific circumstances), they aren't painted which leaves them vulnerable to corrosion from road salt, and they don't have dust boots. Now, in my honest opinion the dust boots are worthless anyways because you track your car a lot, go take a look at your OEM dust boots and tell me how effective you think they are.

The Endurance kits are also heavier than the Sprint kit. I noticed a difference with the sprint kit (when I read someone elses review I dismissed that part but it was obvious, literally never felt that in any other system before) because of it's very light weight.

So far pad and rotor life have been excellent and I have zero plans to replace any part of the system for quite a while still. I don't even bother carrying spares, I should probably but I just don't see the need yet.

Onto Wilwood. I won't bother. Friends in the braking industry (NOT Jeff Ritter @ Essex, but Brembo/NASCAR friends) laugh about how much Wilwood's flex. I trust them and therefore I personally have no interest in running them and don't suggest them for track cars. For the street, WGAS.

The Brembo kits IMO for this car are simply overkill. Also, consumables on a 14" rotor will be *insane* compared to the smaller rotors the Essex comp kits use. I asked Jeff about rotors for a buddies Boss 302 which has Boss 302R (Grand Am) brakes. I can't recall the exact number but it was around a full set of endurance rotors plus some change for ONE rotor, or almost 2 full sets of rotors for the sprint kit for ONE rotor. Those are 14"x32mm rotors like some of the real big kits out there for these cars. Ford Racing charges about $500 per rotor and they buy a ton of them for that discount, Brembo sells them direct for over $700 a rotor. Now those rotors may be more serious than what their BBK uses for these cars, but it's an example of how consumbles can escalate quickly with these very large brakes.

StopTech would be my second choice, but sadly I hate how they don't use a 32mm rotor. Otherwise I love stoptech and support their products as they've always seemed well engineered for the application and they have great customer support in my, and friends, experiences. Jeff Ritter actually use to work for them too.

The Stillen/AP street setups I honestly don't know a ton about. Generally I'd trust them but they are more street than race. They do have the anti-rattle provisions, dust boots, are painted, etc. Between that and StopTech would be a tough choice for me if the Essex Comp kits were out of the question.

The Essex/AP Formula kits IMO are overkill for a track car. I'm not saying they are bad, they look badass. But I want to run 17" wheels at the largest. I'm not a big wheel guy so having to run 18s is a HUGE negative for me which basically means I would never run a 14" rotor on these cars. I just don't see any reason to do so. YMMV of course and again it comes down to what you need/want/care about.

I just finished playing hockey and drinking some beer so hopefully most of that made sense.

To summarize, IMO for a track car that doesn't need to be driven in the snow I would go straight to the Essex Comp kits. For anything reasonably close to stock power I would absolutely go with the Sprint kit. For a boosted car I'd consider the Endurance setup instead. My next choice would be the smaller Stop Tech/Stillen setup. Then the AP Formula setup, then big StopTech/Stillen.

Also, if you go with the Essex stuff talk to Jeff and see which he thinks would suit your needs. I did and he helped me decide to save money and go with the Sprint kit instead of the Endurance kit. I've also been by their shop, I like that they've bought a car to develop with and they have a really nice and clean operation.

Disclosure: Am I biased towards them now? Sure, just like I am towards anyone else I receive great service and information from. Yes, I have a past with Jeff through our ownership of ITRs in the past, but if I didn't think their products worked I sure as hell wouldn't be tracking my car with them!

[nix]

I am well and truly on the fence on this as well, and a bit of a brakes noob. I was going to do a ~$2k STI brembo + Dba rotor build, but starting to lean towards a more dedicated bbk upgrade.

But my requirements as with all my mods are... long durability and performance without sacrificing ride quality in this case, noise and dust.

I'll be seeing mostly quick, ~50km spurts of canyon/hill style runs most weeks with track days every month or so. I am not racing it though so can do a few laps and peel off for brakes to cool...

Lots of reading ahead of me I think.

[Dave-ROR]

Oh, and I'd bet that the chances of an Essex competition kit coming out for the rear are pretty slim. There's no need for more brake back there and keeping the e-brake means an iron hat I'd guess, which would eliminate most of the weight savings. As such I personally don't think I'd ever buy it even if they did, unless they came up with a way around the weight issue