FA20 Engine Wins Ward's 10 Best Engines of 2013

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Chimpo

Anyone remember the F20C (Honda S2K)? Made 120/litre while being NA without using direct injection. Admittedly it's not in the relative price range but oooooooooo the razzle/dazzle built into the motor.

Honda glory days come back to us....

Yeah and no low-end torque. Take a look at the F20C and FA20 tested on the same dyno:



This is why I'm surprised people are complaining about the FA20's torque dip. Would people rather have no low-end torque to eliminate the first peak?

Compared to the F20C, the FA20 is a little torque monster.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the F20C was a technological marvel for its time and showed what VTEC + 9k redline could accomplish. But the dyno chart also demonstrates what makes the FA20 impressive. 100 hp/L, but with good low-end torque.

[Chimpo]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah and no low-end torque. Take a look at the F20C and FA20 tested on the same dyno:



This is why I'm surprised people are complaining about the FA20's torque dip. Would people rather have no low-end torque to eliminate the first peak?

Compared to the F20C, the FA20 is a little torque monster.

Is that a Rammstein album cover?

[NOHOME]

Linear low- to- high transition feels more natural than the "tripping over shoelaces" dip.

Having it feel like the engine drops out for a while is just kind of weird.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Chimpo

Is that a Rammstein album cover?

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Linear low- to- high transition feels more natural than the "tripping over shoelaces" dip.

Having it feel like the engine drops out for a while is just kind of weird.

Yep that's a fair point. I'd still rather have the low-end torque for daily driving though.

[Chimpo]

Getting back to it, isn't the VTEC change not until roughly 6000rpm on the Honda? I see what you're getting at, but the Honda purposely isn't "hot" until way up the rpm band.

[pr086]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

DOHC, but only one cam profile per camshaft. What he's referring to are systems like VTEC or VVTL which have a second cam "profile" that alters lift and duration for high-rpm flow. Essentially a second set of cams.

The FA20 can only vary timing, not lift/duration. In other words VVTI, not VVTL-I.

ok i figured thats what he meant.

i came out of an 8th gen si, vtec is cool, but we do have much more low end power, and while the vtec "kick" is cool, it's also very disruptive. you have to anticipate it and kind of treat in vtec and out of vtec like 2 different cars.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Chimpo

Getting back to it, isn't the VTEC change not until roughly 6000rpm on the Honda? I see what you're getting at, but the Honda purposely isn't "hot" until way up the rpm band.

Keep in mind it wouldn't make sense to run the hotter cam profile at low rpms. Honda got all the torque it could out of the F20C, there just wasn't much there in the low/midrange.

The FA20 inherently has more low-end torque than the F20C. This is probably due to the higher compression ratio (12.5:1), cam spec, and intake tuning, although I'm sure some NA engine builder has more knowledge than me on this.

Originally Posted by pr086

ok i figured thats what he meant.

i came out of an 8th gen si, vtec is cool, but we do have much more low end power, and while the vtec "kick" is cool, it's also very disruptive. you have to anticipate it and kind of treat in vtec and out of vtec like 2 different cars.

Yeah Honda purposely delayed the VTEC crossover to emphasize the "kick-in-the-pants" feel when the cam lobes switched. One of the reasons people got tunes in the S2000/RSX-S/TSX was to lower the VTEC engagement point and smooth out the transition.

[Jeff86]

My "torque dip" is pretty much gone after tuning. It's a great engine with amazing potential that responds very well to being tuned.

[Turbowned]

Wow, I wasn't expecting this! Go FA20!

Off-topic, but the Audi 3.0TFSI engine is the best engine on Earth, in a car under $55,000. Absolutely the best. I would give my left testicle to own another car with that engine in it! If you haven't tried one yet, go to the closest Audi dealer and test drive either the S4 or S5 with the manual transmission. Make sure the car has the sports diff and to put it in "dynamic" mode!

[LIKEABOSS]

High praise for this motor! My Boss has a 10 Best motor with much more power but I appreciate what was accomplished with this motor. Some of the complaining just makes me laugh.

[fatoni]

i dont think it is one of the 10 best motors. i do think that it was the right motor for this car. those are two different things though.

[ZetaVI]

Is there a thread that links all the awards won by the twins? If not, make it happen.

[Levi]

D*ckheads all those saying it does not deserve to be on the list. Your are all spoilt by lazy crappy torque of turbocahrged diesels and gazolines. First try to handle the 200 PS of the "torquless" FA20, before demanding more. I bet at min 90% of ZX6 owners can't handle 100% of the cars potential. Tell me what other NA engine today makes 100 PS/l (detuned!!!) and has such a special, in fact best configuration possible, a boxer?And please stop the "10 years ago the S2000...". Today there is no S2000. FACT. So ZX6 is the only choice, if Elise/Exige are too hardcore, Cayman to expensive and 4C not yet on sale.The FA20 deserves to be on the list. PERIOD.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

What's wrong with the exhaust note? I'm glad it doesn't sound like a WRX, and it doesn't sound like a straight 4 either. Sadly there are only a couple 4 cylinder engines that i have ever heard that made a sound that could be considered good sounding...both of them come from superbikes, the Aprilia RSV4 and Ducati Desmosedici which both use V4's and make 200HP per Liter.

Yeah, it's honestly not that bad. I am also glad it doesn't sound like a typical Subaru but if they could get it sounding more like an S2000 or a Porsche 6 cylinder boxer, that'd be awesome. For a minute I thought that was my friend on that Ducati. He looks exactly like him. LOL