Somebody is bitter...

[sastexan]

TTAC is a great blog. I've been reading it (and commenting) for years. Jack's style is, well, somewhat flamboyant and certainly attempts to stand apart from every other car reviewer. He succeeds.

I thought there were elements missing in his video analysis that he filled in somewhat with his written discussion of the FR-S. The one point he did NOT express well is that this evaluation was solely on how these stock cars take a track that has little (if any) elevation - not as a daily driver. And you know what? He probably is right - stock a Genesis Coupe turbo is probably better as a track car (you can keep the turbo at full boil and you have proper brakes and decent tires). And those who haven't driven Miatas are missing out - they may be slower but they are a blast.

Expecting a reviewer to evaluate a car based on "potential" upgrades is unrealistic and unfair - it makes the review entirely subjective rather than using the reality of the stock cars tested as a comparison point. I learn whenever I read this kind of stuff. Doesn't mean I agree with everything nor that it will influence my opinion but certainly is educational.

I will keep happily driving my FR-S, including at the track (although maybe I will get new brakes before my first HPDE), and not be in the least bit concerned that I "missed" something when I test drove other competing cars (including the GenCoupe and Miata, among others). And I will keep reading reviews, positive or negative, and attempt to understand what the author is expressing.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by sastexan

TTAC is a great blog. I've been reading it (and commenting) for years. Jack's style is, well, somewhat flamboyant and certainly attempts to stand apart from every other car reviewer. He succeeds.....

I don't really have any issues with what Jack was saying, its his opinion and it was worth about what you have to pay for it (as is mine).

However, his writing style, if you can call it that, completely turned me off. If that is typical of his writing, I can't see me becoming a fan. Too much of a "drunken stream of consciousness" to me. Also, being negative (or positive) just in an attempt to stand out is a non-starter for me and that is exactly how it comes off. "Hey look at me, I get to write crap and you're reading it, ha ha!"

Just my opinion of course.

[DarkSunrise]

IMO the author raises a couple of valid points, they're just hidden behind his annoying writing style.

First, I've had a lot of seat time in various Miatas including the NC, and I have no qualms with anyone saying it's a better driver's car than the Toyobaru twins. I think that's certainly debatable on both sides. The Miata is a better driver's car than most of the other cars in the segment -- 370z, STI, Gen Coupe, Mustang, GTI, MS3, 1-series, etc. In fact, I'd put it in the top tier of best driver's cars under $40k, along with the S2000, RX-8, Evo 8/9/X, and the Toyobaru twins. The Miata is that good IMO.

Second, I think it's valid to say that the Genesis Coupe posted faster lap times than the FR-S. We've seen that happen in other tests as well. If you care about laptimes, the GC is clearly the way to go among these three cars.

What the FR-S does is split the difference between the Miata and GC. The FR-S posts better laptimes than the Miata (which the author fails to mention), but also is a better driver's car than the Gen Coupe (which the author also fails to mention). And it just so happens to be cheaper than both.

That's the trick the FR-S manages to pull off. It's a cheaper, more practical, faster Miata hard top. Great car, but I could see why someone would prefer the Miata or GC, depending on their preferences.

[Kunzite]

Having valid points or preferring other cars is perfectly fine. Bashing a car because you couldn't buy it or whatever, and calling it "journalism" isn't.
By the way, do you believe that not publishing Miata's times was a honest mistake?

P.S. That somebody is bitter also about this thread. What a maroon...

[Bugbeat]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

I enjoy TTAC, and sort of expected the negative review for the FR-S (Derek Kreindler, one of their main contributors, kinda telegraphed for weeks that he was disappointed with the car).

Personally, I think that some of the comments on that review reflect more poorly on the FR-S/BRZ owners/fans (of which I count myself as).

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Things like driving feel are subjective, and everybody just has different priorities.
There's no need to get too personal or excited about that.

Obviously, Jack's and Derek's priorities do not match up with those of FR-S/BRZ owners.
Nothing wrong with that.
They don't like the car as much as you'd hoped? Nothing wrong with that either.

If you're like me, you don't have the time (or the money) to track your car regularly, so finding a reasonably enjoyable daily driver (with room for groceries and a couple friends in a pinch) makes something like the FR-S/BRZ a perfect fit.
Will it be a perfect fit for someone used to 300+hp rockets or supercars?
Probably not.

FWIW, they probably wanted to buck the trend of positive FR-S/BRZ reviews, and they did. And judging by the discussion that's generated, it probably wasn't a bad idea that they did.

I'm completely fine with the fact that Jack didn't like the car - but his review was devoid of any sort of class whatsoever. From what I've seen, he's completely self-absorbed and sneaks ways to back-door-brag about himself uncomfortably often. For example: "Oh, I have enough money to buy a modern Porsche but I refuse to because all modern Porsches suck" or "Oh, I'm such a good driver. Here's an article I wrote about me passing other typical ham-fisted auto journalists at the track."

But as soon as I post a reply to one of the commenters, giving an example of someone middle aged and well-off who's looking to buy an FR-S (in counterpoint to the sweeping generalizations Baruth makes in the "review"), Jack calls me out for "bragging". Seriously, the pot calls the kettle black.

First, Grahambo posted this:

Grahambo: "Agree with Quentin. Some of us above the age of 25 with real, well paying careers like very much to drive fun cars but would rather take as much of our pay as possible and put it towards towards things – retirement, family, house — other than massive car notes/massive depreciation (given the relative impracticality of sports cars, I think the price ceiling is even more important for responsible pragmatic types who are not independently wealthy). I suspect a lot of people in that category are interested in the BRZ/FR-S, not just parents’ basement dwellers. $25k is a decent — but not insurmountable chunk of change. It is also likely somewhere in the ballpark of the amount of depreciation a Cayman will suffer in 5 years or so."

Me (BugBehr) in response to Grahambo:

My girlfriend’s father is in exactly the same predicament that you speak of. He’s been driving his B5 Audi A4 2.0T for a decade and a half now, and he’s looking to get a small, sporty car under 30k as his next purchase. He and his wife earn at least 250k a year.

In addition, the stereotyping in this article is unnecessary. What purpose does it serve? It’s not truly intelligent, nor does it contribute anything to the argument other than making the author look like that one kid. You know the one – or, at least I do. That kid in ninth grade who tried to rebel against convention by growing his hair out long, listening to obscure music, and constantly playing the devil’s advocate to the teachers. He thought he was cool, but when he grew up, he came to realize how stupid he was. I used to write like this when I was 13; I was that kid once. In the interest of higher forms of communication, however, I’ve since realized that this type of writing is best saved for my ultra-cool Moleskine notebook.
One last note – a Miata would run circles around a FR-S? Is this literal, with unbiased numbers, or is it just rhetorical? I believe this is can be considered yellow journalism.

Aaand of course, Jack himself in response to my comment:

'In addition, the stereotyping in this article is just sooooooo cool.'

Not as cool as bragging about how much cash your A4-driving girlfriend’s poppa stacks, apparently.
The fact that you’re discussing “literal, unbiased numbers” with reference to laptimes shows that you aren’t nearly as scientific as you think you are. Laptimes are set by people. These people have actual preferences. It shows in their driving. Ross Bentley has demonstrated that simply saying certain words into a driver’s radio can measurably change their laptimes.
Sorry you got kicked around by some d00d with long hair and an electric guitar, and that it caused you to accidentally deconstruct your own point by stereotyping the people who create stereotypes, or something like that, I’m sorry, I need to wrap this up so I can knock some broad off then wail on my ’79 Explorer through a Private Reserve Mesa Mark V.

I tossed out my perception of Jack's maturity, and he took the bait. He somehow avoids the issue of the Miata's lap time by tossing rhetorical BS my way, essentially saying "Oh, everything's subjective! HA! SCHOOLED YOU!". Then he essentially high-fives himself and brags about his material possessions. (Oh, look at how cool and expensive my guitar and amp are) I'm not sure how others might see it, but to me it just seems like in trying to prove me wrong he's given more supporting evidence for my argument.

On a side note, it's rather obnoxious how Derek presents his opinion on the FR-S/BRZ as universal fact which should be taken up by all other auto journalists. Here's an exchange I had with him on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Autos/commen...at_car/c79y8xb

The negative reviews are "creeping in" he says! Note that he also essentially cites himself as one of the sources of the aforementioned negative reviews.

I get the feeling this kid just likes to be contrary for contrary's sake. He had a short test-drive of a used automatic V8 Vantage and now he's an expert on how the V8 Vantage feels. He drove the car without knowing what condition the brakes were in, and complains about how the brakes "didn't feel right". And as for the Vantage not feeling sharp or well-put together? Then how come Tim Schrick decided to spend boatloads of money buying a V8 Vantage to convert into a GT3 racecar, praising the handling and balance of the car, if it wasn't that "sharp" or "well-put together"? It quite irks me, how Kreindler presents his personal opinion as universal truth. Counterpoint should not be done like this - take Chris Harris, and his presentation of his personal views on the MX-5 Miata.

[JDMenrique]

I guess everyone that has reviewed this car positively has been biased right under our nose. Someone seems a little butt hurt

[lbroskee]

um he called the genesis 3.8 a 3.8T track edition.....since when did the 3.8 have a turbo? man he's a moron

[ProTekk]

Whenever anyone brings up crap like "oh it must be nice to live at home with Mommy and Daddy and have them pay your bills!" I really do get offended. I get that look all the time in this car. So here's where I'm at in life people. I'm 20 with no more education than high school, full time job, salaried making more than some teachers here do, living at home and paying my grandparents bills along with my own as well as this car. Need to make that a fucking bumper sticker for myself or something.

This car is fun as hell. I drove an '04 Lamborghini Gallardo today. Never gave me that same smile my FR-S does. Maybe it's due to my prejudice against Lamborghini and Ferrari.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[Bugbeat]

Originally Posted by ProTekk

Whenever anyone brings up crap like "oh it must be nice to live at home with Mommy and Daddy and have them pay your bills!" I really do get offended. I get that look all the time in this car. So here's where I'm at in life people. I'm 20 with no more education than high school, full time job, salaried making more than some teachers here do, living at home and paying my grandparents bills along with my own as well as this car. Need to make that a fucking bumper sticker for myself or something.

This car is fun as hell. I drove an '04 Lamborghini Gallardo today. Never gave me that same smile my FR-S does. Maybe it's due to my prejudice against Lamborghini and Ferrari.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Good on you, man - you totally SHOULD make that a bumper sticker

[Ingen]

Lol, really?

I drove the Genesis coupe 3.8. It was a big heavy turd, to be honest, and the steering was too vague for my taste.

Of course, when you're used to driving a scalpel everything else feels a little dull, doesn't it?

[ExWhyZer0]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

As a recent college-grad living with his parents and leasing an FR-S while paying student loans, I take offense to this review >_>

As do I! I don't make nearly enough money to move out yet with college loans, so I might as well drive a kickass car!

[ExWhyZer0]

I've seen a guy troll mostly every review about the FR-S on youtube about the genesis being superior. Could be the same guy lol!

[Nevermore]

Originally Posted by ExWhyZer0

As do I! I don't make nearly enough money to move out yet with college loans, so I might as well drive a kickass car!

Wow, you and I are in the exact same boat. I make a decent amount, but not enough to live by myself, so I filled the gap with the FR-S. Not the smartest move, but definitely the most fun one I've ever made.

[ExWhyZer0]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Wow, you and I are in the exact same boat. I make a decent amount, but not enough to live by myself, so I filled the gap with the FR-S. Not the smartest move, but definitely the most fun one I've ever made.

Lol yeah I honestly wasn't gonna get a new car for a couple of years but my old commute accord started becoming a money pit for me so I needed something. I figure if I'm at home, might as well make the best of it lol :P