FA20 Engine Wins Ward's 10 Best Engines of 2013

[SubieNate]

I feel like everyone complaining about down low torque is coming from a VQ Nissan or other much higher displacement engine.

News flash. It's a 2.0 liter engine with a relatively basic VVT system. It's not going to have stump pulling torque down low AND that awesome high end at the same time. Just ask any S2000 driver.

My buddy Andrew drives a fully track prepped S2000 pretty regularly. His first comment on driving my car? "It's pretty torquey down low."

It's all about perspective. Time will tell if the torque dip is something that can be tuned or modified out without FI. But one thing is for sure, and that is the fact that some people are blowing it WAY out of proportion because they want it to pull at 3k like a V8 Mustang. Ain't gonna happen.

Nathan

[Opposed]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I feel like everyone complaining about down low torque is coming from a VQ Nissan or other much higher displacement engine.

News flash. It's a 2.0 liter engine with a relatively basic VVT system. It's not going to have stump pulling torque down low AND that awesome high end at the same time. Just ask any S2000 driver.

My buddy Andrew drives a fully track prepped S2000 pretty regularly. His first comment on driving my car? "It's pretty torquey down low."

It's all about perspective. Time will tell if the torque dip is something that can be tuned or modified out without FI. But one thing is for sure, and that is the fact that some people are blowing it WAY out of proportion because they want it to pull at 3k like a V8 Mustang. Ain't gonna happen.

Nathan

I came from an S2K. This thing feels like a small V6 compared to that...

[ScionRacer]

I have had zero issues with my FRS and Im going on 6k.

No CEL
No tailight condensation
No ill fitting panels
No clutch slipping
No electronics issues
No shifting issues
No braking noises
No bad suspension components
No interior rattling
No chirping idle issues because i accepted that its a characteristic of the car and don't even notice it anymore.


Yet a handful of people who experienced these issues are making the frs/brz out to be a engineering disaster instead of the marvel that it really is.

I may have been lucky enough to get all the good parts on my FRS,Obviously others did not.Its too bad because it has spoiled their experience of how awesome the car really is.

Then there are some people who expected these cars to deliver BMW performance and luxury on the 25k price tag.Toyota and Subaru do not make that caliber vehicle,they never have and probably never will.They have made some really nice cars,but none are on par with what the likes of BMW,Audi,Mercedes have to offer.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

Show us another 100hp/liter engine in production for $25K.

Ford Fiesta. 1 liter 3 cylinder 138hp.

Don't get me wrong, I do like my car, but it was launched to a huge fanfare that was deliberately created, and some of the emperors clothes are turning out to be of a lesser cloth. All to be expected. There is currently no other car out there that will do what the FRS does for my driving enjoyment.

Besides, legacy is not determined in the first few years, history will gauge this car by how reliable it is an hence how the second and third hand buyers evolve the platform.

The Twins will not be judged against the Mustangs and Huyindai's of the world. The twins are in my opinion peerless and will be measured against what they promised and how well it is perceived to have been delivered. For an example of a champion in this respect, look at the Miata that arrived peerless in 1989 and remains so to this day.

And that would be the Bactrian camel for those that were wondering!

Who the hell gets 37 mpg out of their car. I have yet to hit 30.

[gmookher]

learn to shift within the power band

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Ford Fiesta. 1 liter 3 cylinder 138hp.

Don't get me wrong, I do like my car, but it was launched to a huge fanfare that was deliberately created, and some of the emperors clothes are turning out to be of a lesser cloth. All to be expected. There is currently no other car out there that will do what the FRS does for my driving enjoyment.

Besides, legacy is not determined in the first few years, history will gauge this car by how reliable it is an hence how the second and third hand buyers evolve the platform.

The Twins will not be judged against the Mustangs and Huyindai's of the world. The twins are in my opinion peerless and will be measured against what they promised and how well it is perceived to have been delivered. For an example of a champion in this respect, look at the Miata that arrived peerless in 1989 and remains so to this day.

And that would be the Bactrian camel for those that were wondering!

Who the hell gets 37 mpg out of their car. I have yet to hit 30.

The Fiesta's a turbo. That point is invalid. Almost every turbo engine makes over 100 hp/l. That's kind of the turbo's raison d'être. Name another 25k (new) naturally aspirated car that hits 100 hp/L.

Some of the people with autos have hit really high MPG's on the freeway as their 6th gear is higher. I've hit 31 or so with my manual. All depends on how you drive. I don't like to drive below 70 on long drives so I rarely get much higher than that.

Nathan

[oldpueblo]

My average is 31, but then again I got an auto for that very purpose.

[Capstan]

Originally Posted by ScionRacer

I have had zero issues with my FRS and Im going on 6k.

I've got only about half that many miles on mine but same experience. No problems of any kind whatsoever.

[Ingen]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Camel shaped torque curve win awards for anything?

Nobody would ever mention the torque dip if it weren't for the first hump of said curve. Low end torque is nice.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by gmookher

learn to shift within the power band

Which one? The lower one or the upper one?

Seems like you either row this thing at 3200 rpm or wait till you are on the high side and pull the lever at around 6000.

Me, I like the bigger number. So if you wait till you get past the bit where the car stumbles like a kd who tied his shoelaces together, and keep it on the high end, it is not a big dea. The option is to stay in the putter-around zone and drive at 3000 rpm. Sometimes the later option suits me.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

The Fiesta's a turbo. That point is invalid. Almost every turbo engine makes over 100 hp/l. That's kind of the turbo's raison d'être. Name another 25k (new) naturally aspirated car that hits 100 hp/L.

Some of the people with autos have hit really high MPG's on the freeway as their 6th gear is higher. I've hit 31 or so with my manual. All depends on how you drive. I don't like to drive below 70 on long drives so I rarely get much higher than that.

Nathan

You need to go back and read the question asked. Then come back and explain how my answer did not cover exactly what was asked!

And yes, I am yanking your chain a bit.My point is that this is not a "great" engine. It is just "another" engine in a large field of everyday powerplants. If it was a great engine, we could not afford it.

[Supermassive]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

You need to go back and read the question asked. Then come back and explain how my answer did not cover exactly what was asked!

And yes, I am yanking your chain a bit.My point is that this is not a "great" engine. It is just "another" engine in a large field of everyday powerplants. If it was a great engine, we could not afford it.

The 2JZ-GTE is considered one of the greatest engines of all time, and was relatively affordable considering that the engine was kicking around in one form or another since the 80's. It's not an elegant engine, some may say the exhaust note reminds them of farm machinery, but no one will deny the fact that that engine shaped a huge part of the Import scene. The FA20 is an amazing little engine, there's already 500HP plus FI setups running on all stock internals with no apparent signs of impending doom to the drivetrain. This engine will likely spawn a huge following based on it's tunability, low CG, low cost, and it's already growing aftermarket support.

Even bone stock the engine is quite amazing...and if you consider the rest of the field of engines released this year, the only real competition would be among exotics like the Ferrari F12.

[SubieNate]

I have to agree with @Supermassive.

As an engineer (Hate to pull that card but I'm going to ) I think it's pretty great that Subaru/Toyota has given us a 100hp/L boxer engine that can do 30+ mpg on the highway. At 26k, that just doesn't happen very often. Even Honda (The "king" of I4 performance engines according to many) needs 2.4 liters to make the same peak power in the current Si. It puts out a bit more torque, but that's a given with .4 liters more displacement.

On top of this, the engine has taken to FI extremely well, especially for something with 12.5:1 compression. There aren't a lot of 2 liter engines out there that can put out 100 hp/L stock AND handle enough boost to put out 300, 400, even 500+ hp with stock internals. Time will tell if it can keep putting out those numbers over 100k miles, but the fact that it doesn't grenade itself instantly at those power levels is impressive.

Cheers
Nathan

[Bristecom]

It's not far from being a great engine. Fix the torque dip, add a tad more hp/tq, and improve the exhaust note a bit, and they'd have themselves one of the best road car engines ever made!