Flexfuel

[Allch Chcar]

Original thread with poll

Edit: Thank you all for voting!

[Random_Art]

There's an e85 station down the street from my apartment. Though, personally, I would be more interested in it if they were able to easily get it from waste products or something other than corn. I think there's companies out there that are working on ethanol production from things like sawdust from lumber mills and algae.

As far as alternative fuels go, I'm more interested in Hydrogen. I'm not talking about the scams that try to increase your MPG by making your engine create hydrogen out of water. Basic chemistry and physics will tell you that it doesn't work simply because it would take more energy to get the hydrogen than you would get out of it in a self contained system like that. A friend of mine works with a guy who converts engines to run on hydrogen, and he uses 2 separate tanks. a small one for gasoline which he uses just to start the car, and a separate tank for the hydrogen. From what I understand, he gets about 500 miles from a tank of hydrogen. And, the technology to get hydrogen from water is getting better all the time. I think there's a system in the works that uses a new type of photovoltaic cell to produce both hydrogen and electricity from sunlight and water. I'll dig around and see if I can find an article on it.

[Chibi86]

I'm already running on E85 at 80% with my stock engine on my celica and it is a good mean to save some money and contribute to limit the pollution

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

...Future of Cars thread to discuss stuff like that..

Originally Posted by Random_Art

...
As far as alternative fuels go, I'm more interested in Hydrogen. I'm not talking about the scams that try to increase your MPG by making your engine create hydrogen out of water. Basic chemistry and physics will tell you that it doesn't work simply because it would take more energy to get the hydrogen than you would get out of it in a self contained system like that. A friend of mine works with a guy who converts engines to run on hydrogen, and he uses 2 separate tanks. a small one for gasoline which he uses just to start the car, and a separate tank for the hydrogen. From what I understand, he gets about 500 miles from a tank of hydrogen. And, the technology to get hydrogen from water is getting better all the time. I think there's a system in the works that uses a new type of photovoltaic cell to produce both hydrogen and electricity from sunlight and water. I'll dig around and see if I can find an article on it.

Way to go offtopic in the first response in the thread Random...

[Ryephile]

I'm not interested in a FFV at this time. I would buy a turbo-Diesel offering in a heartbeat, however.

[Random_Art]

Is it really off topic if we explore all possibilities for alternative fuels? I'm for ethanol, but like a lot of new power sources, it needs some work. The reality is that we probably won't have the production capacity for ethanol/biodiesel to cover every vehicle on the road. So, we need to supplement it with other sources. Electric vehicles, hybrids, and vehicles that can run on other fuels like hydrogen.

There's also infrastructure problems for all new fuels.

[iff2mastamatt]

Ethanol = worse mileage. No thank you.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Random_Art

Is it really off topic if we explore all possibilities for alternative fuels? I'm for ethanol, but like a lot of new power sources, it needs some work. The reality is that we probably won't have the production capacity for ethanol/biodiesel to cover every vehicle on the road. So, we need to supplement it with other sources. Electric vehicles, hybrids, and vehicles that can run on other fuels like hydrogen.

There's also infrastructure problems for all new fuels.

We already have a thread for alt energy though. My opinion on this is that talking about a "swap in" fuel option like FFV is no different than discussing if the engine should be designed for 91 or 93. Except we're talking about adding another lowest common denominator like 91, since you can still run 91 without a problem but now you can run 91, 93 and any % mixture of Ethanol.

I'm not even 100% certain if this thread is in the correct forum . Please don't make it any worse than it is.

Originally Posted by Nerfie

Biofuel. LOL. It's not a question of saving $100, or £65. It's a question of not falling for false hope and unfulfilled prophecies like a religious zealot. Or 'Marketing' for short.

That is all.

It was much simpler to just put "save $100" than use it for any number of one shots. And sorry but this is actually relevant so I'm not going to let you get away with a deleted post .

I understand what you're getting at though. Ethanol isn't the magic bullet that everyone hoped or thought it would be. Once you get past that and realize it is better than Gasoline in some ways but not all of them, and it's much easier to let the market decide how much of each fuel by using an alternative fuel that can be mixed with Gasoline. You can't run part electric without a hybrid car or hydrogen without a fuel cell. A FFV is 99% similar to a Gasoline vehicle. Basically an almost "drop in" option to running Gasoline.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I have links in my sig to see if E85 is available in your area and the local prices and even the current crop of FFVs (which are common DD *cough*). Note that E85 is not cost effective outside of the Corn belt at this time and availability is limited. The only reason I bring it up is there is a mild performance difference in a tuned car especially when going with boost and the choice at the pump is a nice thing to have

Myself, it is available where I live, at one independent gas station in every major town (pop 20,000+). And the price varies throughout the year since we have 4 seasons so the winter grade is 70% and almost the same price per GALLON as Gasoline at only 20cents cheaper. Needless to say our local Ethanol, with very little doubt, comes from Corn. I know that the only way to go from the first gen to second gen is to support it until it matures. And I would much rather pay that little bit extra per mile for Ethanol, knowing what it is and what it is capable of doing, than to be required to put that crap known as Gasoline.

In San Diego, there is also only 1 station (Off El Cajon Blvd and the I-15). It used to be a Ford dealership/FF station but due to the economy, the dealership moved out but the FF station remains. It doesn't seem like it's doing too well either.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Chibi86

I'm already running on E85 at 80% with my stock engine on my celica and it is a good mean to save some money and contribute to limit the pollution

That's crazy man. I thought of doing that myself, converting to E85, but not to a new car. E85 is just too expensive to save any money here so the only reason for me would be performance or because domestic fuel.

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I'm not interested in a FFV at this time. I would buy a turbo-Diesel offering in a heartbeat, however.

Well you aren't the only one, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt

Ethanol = worse mileage. No thank you.

Naturally.

Originally Posted by RRnold

In San Diego, there is also only 1 station (Off El Cajon Blvd and the I-15). It used to be a Ford dealership/FF station but due to the economy, the dealership moved out but the FF station remains. It doesn't seem like it's doing too well either.

The one station in San Diego? Nashville has 8 and they're probably charging the same price for E85 as they are there and Regular Gasoline is cheaper out here.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The one station in San Diego? Nashville has 8 and they're probably charging the same price for E85 as they are there and Regular Gasoline is cheaper out here.

No joke!!
http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa....html#SanDiego

We don't do corn here in CA, we're all about Avocados!

[serialk11r]

The mere fact that I have never seen an E85 pump anywhere and have never heard of any place with an E85 pump before now makes me say no, save the 100, no use for it now. If it becomes more common people can just do the upgrade later if they really like their old cars. Besides the higher octane is not much use if you don't have boost or higher compression ratios.

[GenkiElite]

E85 is great for tuning. Damn near race gas. Yes please!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Chibi86

I'm already running on E85 at 80% with my stock engine on my celica and it is a good mean to save some money and contribute to limit the pollution

i dont think e85 is that much abetter for the environment since it requires almost as much energy from fossil fuels as ethanol produces