Synchros problem?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by sierra

Where did this fallacy come from? Of course you can change into 1st gear while it's moving, it's just another gear and happens to be the lowest one.

Where is the mechanical logic that you have to be stopped to select it?

You can, but what's the point in revving the piss out of it to shift into first? You have to rev-match well and it's nigh impossible to do at speed from a cold start (sometimes I roll off my driveway in neutral). You can feel the resistance at the shift gate even when warm.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

You can, but what's the point in revving the piss out of it to shift into first? You have to rev-match well and it's nigh impossible to do at speed from a cold start (sometimes I roll off my driveway in neutral). You can feel the resistance at the shift gate even when warm.

It's hardly revving the piss out of it to change into 1st at 10mph/16kph from 2nd when the revs are only 2000rpm at that speed.
I just don't understand why you wouldn't just change into 1st at that speed or lower rather than start slipping the clutch or come to a stop, put it itno 1st and then move off again?

I understand gearboxes are tight cold, that's different. I wouldn't shift into 1st on the move when it's stone cold either.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by sierra

It's hardly revving the piss out of it to change into 1st at 10mph/16kph from 2nd when the revs are only 2000rpm at that speed.
I just don't understand why you wouldn't just change into 1st at that speed or lower rather than start slipping the clutch or come to a stop, put it itno 1st and then move off again?

I understand gearboxes are tight cold, that's different. I wouldn't shift into 1st on the move when it's stone cold either.

Personally, I'm no pro. I've got it down better now, but I when first got the car I couldn't rev match 1st gear to save my life. At a light I creep up in 2nd at very partial to no throttle.

Kinda wish cars had wet clutches like bikes...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Personally, I'm no pro. I've got it down better now, but I when first got the car I couldn't rev match 1st gear to save my life. At a light I creep up in 2nd at very partial to no throttle.

Kinda wish cars had wet clutches like bikes...

What would the wet clutch do? Enable a taller 1st gear?

If first gear has triple cone synchros or whatever I'd guess that it would be possible to shift into it without double clutching, but I thought first gear is usually the one with the weaker synchro? With a rev match my transmission slides into 1st just fine but the margin of error is very small compared to the other gears. But I don't have one of these cars.

I think going into 1st isn't really useful when coming to a stop because 2nd gear engine brakes you down to a crawl already but it's fun to rev match :P

[OrbitalEllipses]

Wet clutch? Well, you can't burn 'em up like dry clutches. Half throttle half clutch? Why not! Quick way to speed up and do several specific things, according to my very basic understanding of how a wet clutch works.

[RazBRZ]

Originally Posted by jesperswe

I always keep mine in second gear when im about to stop, right before the stop i press the clutch pedal and then put into 1st gear when standing still

^That's what I'm talking about. If I'm not stopping a stay in 2nd, if I stop I use first.
No it's not my first manual. I learned to drive in a manual and this is my 4th car (1st RWD) all of them being a manual. I also have a class A CDL and drive big rigs with manuals.
Unless I screwed something up when the trans was cold, I don't think it is me. I did notice the trans is slightly louder with the Whiteline shifter bushing. maybe that and bogging the RPMs to low caused it. It's not every time just occasionally. I have a tendency to get paranoid about these things.

[TMayes86]

Originally Posted by sierra

Where did this fallacy come from? Of course you can change into 1st gear while it's moving, it's just another gear and happens to be the lowest one.

Where is the mechanical logic that you have to be stopped to select it?

Synchro mesh transmissions can have issues and eventually break if you shift into first while in motion.

[flippy]

Originally Posted by BMWDavid

What I do sometimes is go right from 1st gear into 3rd. That is a super creamy shift first thing in the morning. After a few miles then the 1st to 2nd shift feels fine.

I too wonder if one of the MT lubes from Amsoil or Redline would improve the cold shifts?

FYI some guy already screwed up his gears/synchros on his FRS/BRZ by skipping gears like that.

[Chimpo]

I still don't understand how skipping gears is going to hurt anything... assuming you let the engine rpm drop to where it should be for that particular X gear @ Y speed. Going from 1st to 4th and engaging the clutch at say 6000 rpm, then yes, it's gonna hurt... but if you let the rpm drop to (guessing here) 2000rpm it'll be fine.

You rev match to down shift (i.e. rpm blip) so does it not stand to reason that it works the other way as well?

I've been skipping gears in cars for 10 plus years: Hondas, Subarus, and a bunch of Dodge Neons (one with 100k miles... gasp IT STILL RAN) with never having any inkling of an issue. Some manufacturers even build it in: anyone remember the skip-shift on Corvette/Camaro? No, not same trans but you get my point.

And on a side note, I only shift into first if I'm basically stopped... never feels right if it's moving noticeably.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by TMayes86

Synchro mesh transmissions can have issues and eventually break if you shift into first while in motion.

Unless you can back that up i'll take it as a myth.

Something from an owners manual that states something like '1st gear must only be selected when stationary. Selecting this gear while in motion can cause damage to the gearbox.'

I would suggest selecting 1st while in motion may actually improve the action by freeing it up, the same as the other gears improve from new when they're tighter.

[redlne]

Originally Posted by sierra

Where did this fallacy come from? Of course you can change into 1st gear while it's moving, it's just another gear and happens to be the lowest one.

Where is the mechanical logic that you have to be stopped to select it?

This is to do with older cars that never had syncros on first. None of my other cars (Mach 2 Ford Escort, Holden/Opel Calibra Turbo, FC Mazda RX7, Datsun 180B, 200B, Z31 Nissan 300ZX, RA40 Toyota Celica) have syncros on first so it is hard to change to first when you are not at a complete stop.

Pretty much all new cars have suncros on first to allow for people not knowing or caring that they weren't ment to do it.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by redlne

This is to do with older cars that never had syncros on first. None of my other cars (Mach 2 Ford Escort, Holden/Opel Calibra Turbo, FC Mazda RX7, Datsun 180B, 200B, Z31 Nissan 300ZX, RA40 Toyota Celica) have syncros on first so it is hard to change to first when you are not at a complete stop.

Pretty much all new cars have suncros on first to allow for people not knowing or caring that they weren't ment to do it.

I think you will find that all those cars had syncro on 1st gear.

[gmookher]

I'm gonna open a driving school for this forum...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Personally, I find 5th and 6th to be VERY notchy. 6th actually offers a lot of physical resistance that I actually need to shove it into gear especially over 3.5K RPM; I'm actually concerned.