Innovate Motorsports Twin Screw Supercharger Kit for FR-S/BRZ

[JoeBoxer]

How much can we expect to pay for a Stage 1 Tuner kit? Hardware and tune file only, i have ecutek license and cable already.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by flatline

I drive it 90% of the time like a normal car (since it *is* my daily driver). Screw all this "because racecar" stuff. My car will almost certainly never see the track and it will never lay down a 1/4.

Just curious. Why are you restricting yourself from the posibility of ever taking it to a race track to truely experience the performance of this car. I am not saying you HAVE to but I see a lot of people who have this attitude that "there is just NO WAY i will ever do that".

I can say that when I first took a road car out on the track my eyes were truely opened. It was an experience like no other and I was hooked instantly. It is such an awesome experience you will never want to drive silly/fast/crazy on the streets becuase it just can't even come close to comparing.

HPDE also teaches you about car control and stability.

[Pete]

I'd still love to see a dyno chart for this kit. For real.

[RedLeader]

I think the turn-off, for some, of a centri-SC is that it closely mimics the stock torque and power curve (power and torque climb exponentially-ish and RPM increases), while most PD superchargers create more power and torque across the entire RPM band. Much like a turbo, a centri-SC will make most of it's power once it's spinning fast enough to compress enough air, except turbo's can be sized differently to make that power in various places, or doubled up to make power in multiple places. A PD supercharger generally makes less peak power and torque than a centri-SC, but it makes it's power across much more of the RPM band, and in more noticeable amounts.

Since I'll, ideally, be AutoX-ing my car, I need power where I don't have to constantly keep the engine spinning to use, so I need midrange and low end power and torque, which a centri-SC doesn't offer. Also, since this car is my DD, I'd like to not have to drive with the engine wrapped up to 5k+ all the time to feel more power from my engine. My problem with this car is that all of its power is way up high, and a centri-SC just makes that problem worse.

Also, the vortech kit is nearly $5k, which, while I'm sure is an exceptionally quality piece of kit, is an obscene amount of money; especially since there are quality turbo kits and quality SC kits available or becoming available soonish.

All of this is why I don't like centri-SC kits, don't care that they are better on paper because some thermal-dynamic engineer mathematician said so, I don't care that they make X peak power (my car is going to be used, not dyno'd all the time), and why I don't care that "because racecar".

I'd REALLY like a twin sequential turbo set-up, like the FD RX7, but people like to say "it can't be done" with this car, so I'll probably just wait and see.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

i agree the guy is right, but you gotta also consider the TVS series of roots type blowers, much more efficient and properly sized wont give up much, if any, top end power, being nearly as thermally efficient as a centri as well. the old M62 that lotus used is 2 steps behind the current stuff.

Alot of exige S owners upgrade their SC to the TVS series and make oodles of power at 9-11 psi. It is no doubt a very advanced/modern design. The breaking point then (in the exige) is the transmission and the engine internals.

Stock 2zz 1.8L with TVS upgrade

[gmookher]

I dunno how you guys drive your daily drivers, but I definitely do not keep it under no 3800 rpms...

[2forme]

Originally Posted by gmookher

I dunno how you guys drive your daily drivers, but I definitely do not keep it under no 3800 rpms...

And I'm sure that will show in 50,000 miles

[mines13]

Originally Posted by flatline

The way you are talking about driving, I'm not sure how much more efficient your system is going to be?

I would say I rarely get my FR-S up above 5k rpm. I drive it 90% of the time like a normal car (since it *is* my daily driver). Screw all this "because racecar" stuff. My car will almost certainly never see the track and it will never lay down a 1/4.

Personally, I'm fine sacrificing power up top for low-end oomph since I never drive at the redline. I'm not interested in launch control or any of that malarkey. I just want the car to feel a little more responsive on the throttle from 1.5-3.5k rpm. Depending on how much of a hit the fuel efficiency takes, I might be OK with it.

That said, I've had my eye on about half a dozen different FI solutions, but I'm withholding judgement and selection until they are more thoroughly implemented, tested, and flogged.

Well flatline, I will leak this much... Our current version, compared to a certain kit's posted graph, at an equivalent peak boost pressure, we are making in the neighborhood of 20lb/ft of torque more between 3000 RPM and 4500 RPM. Between 4500 RPM and 5700 RPM the spread grows to 38lb/ft. Peak torque starts to taper just after 5700 RPM in a linear and smooth fashion, the spread drops to 25lb/ft until about 6500 RPM then smoothly down to 14lb/ft to red line. Below 3000 RPM it only torque delivery only gets worse for the other system, as it builds boost with the slope of RPM. Basically, this translates to between 180lb/ft and 200lb/ft of torque between 3000 RPM and 7200 RPM at a similar boost level, to the wheels. Peak torque on the twin screw occurs at 5000 RPM vs 6500 RPM on the other kit. The twin screw also matches the peak torque value of the other kit 3500 RPM sooner...

I am rounding the numbers down as we use a different dyno with a higher parasitic loss, potentially different weather conditions, altitude, etc. But the trend would be the same, so the spread would likely be larger on the same day, same dyno.

Keep in mind, neither of these kits are 100% polished and ready, components, calibration, etc. can change before final release. As mentioned previously, they have not being tested identically. I do not think the other kit is inferior, it is just different and designed for a different type of customer. Simply weigh the cost and attributes of all the offerings and decide what is right for you. There really is no kit that will be all things to all people, just what you feel will work best for you.
:happy0180:

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by 2forme

And I'm sure that will show in 50,000 miles

well, my 300hp dinan stg3 sc m3 doing great at 99k, gets tracked, it will be at Firebird int'l this saturday getting beat on..
my 350hp s4 is at 71k, sees lots of 3 digit drives to LA
our 350hp 911c4 had 110k when we traded it, tracked it hard
my 300hp hks stg3 z car has 168k, rebuilt bwT5, its too old to track
my moab ready landrovers got 75k on 33s with 5 inches of lift
the 335i is at 39k gets tracked hard
and the brz at 5k, gets tracked harder

I must not know how to care for cars past 50k, huh...

[brichard0625]

I'm going with this kit because im looking for low-mid end power. I rarely take my car to redline and this car is my daily driver. Will i go to the track maybe once or twice but this is really my a and b car. Im really looking for something to give about 240-250hp and delivers on the low end of the torque band because that is where im usually going to be driving at. I dont mind sacraficing fuel because im already impressed with what im getting stock. Plus the sound is addicting IMO and i love it

[2forme]

Originally Posted by gmookher

well, my dinan sc m3 doing great at 99k
my s4 is at 71k
our 911c4 had 110k when we traded it
my z car has 168k, rebuilt bwT5
my rovers got 75k
the 335i is at 39k
and the brz at 5k

I must not know how to care for cars past 50k, huh...

I'll give you a cookie if you can tell me where in my post I mentioned your care for cars.

Go ahead, I'll wait

[2forme]

Originally Posted by mines13

Well flatline, I will leak this much... Our current version, compared to a certain kit's posted graph, at an equivalent peak boost pressure, we are making in the neighborhood of 20lb/ft of torque more between 3000 RPM and 4500 RPM. Between 4500 RPM and 5700 RPM the spread grows to 38lb/ft. Peak torque starts to taper just after 5700 RPM in a linear and smooth fashion, the spread drops to 25lb/ft until about 6500 RPM then smoothly down to 14lb/ft to red line. Below 3000 RPM it only torque delivery only gets worse for the other system, as it builds boost with the slope of RPM. Basically, this translates to between 180lb/ft and 200lb/ft of torque between 3000 RPM and 7200 RPM at a similar boost level, to the wheels. Peak torque on the twin screw occurs at 5000 RPM vs 6500 RPM on the other kit. The twin screw also matches the peak torque value of the other kit at 3000 RPM...

I am rounding the numbers down as we use a different dyno with a higher parasitic loss, potentially different weather conditions, altitude, etc. But the trend would be the same, so the spread would likely be larger on the same day, same dyno.

Keep in mind, neither of these kits are 100% polished and ready, and as mentioned, are not being tested identically. I do not think the other kit is inferior, it is just different and designed for a different type of customer. Simply weigh the cost and attributes of all the offerings and decide what is right for you. There really is no kit that will be all things to all people, just what you feel will work best for you.
:happy0180:

Mines, would you be opposed to me adding these referenced figures to my graph for those who are more visually inclined? I won't label you or the product, just to be used for estimated reference purposes

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by 2forme

I'll give you a cookie if you can tell me where in my post I mentioned your care for cars.

Go ahead, I'll wait

macadamia nut please?

wasnt this line about 50,000 miles aimed at my driving style, and a suggestion that I will have a poor running motor as a result of revving it higher than 3800 rpms?

my post was to show that I indeed drive hard, and somehow avoid issues between my care regimen and driving style

then again, I dont skimp on lube etc.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by gmookher

macadamia nut please?

wasnt this line about 50,000 miles aimed at my driving style, and a suggestion that I will have a poor running motor as a result of revving it higher than 3800 rpms?

my post was to show that I indeed drive hard, and somehow avoid issues between my care regimen and driving style

then again, I dont skimp on lube etc.

It was aimed at the amount of wear an engine that spends its life above 4000 RPM over 50,000 miles experiences as opposed to an engine that spends its life mostly below 4000 RPM over 50,000 miles.