Can it be too sporty?

[ft86Fan]

Originally Posted by madfast

have you ever driven it in the snow? how does it handle pot holes? im sure people do DD it, but i have a feeling they change their lifestyle to fit the car vs the other way around. for example now that i have the ridiculously small trunked evo, i find i buy less groceries per visit. instead i go more often. it sucks to have to change to fit the car you love. so for me i dont want another car that may be even more impractical than the first!

Oh, I've never driven it in the snow. Even with snow tires the car is just too low to the ground. Pot holes? I try to avoid them at all cost. One time I hit one and it felt like the suspension have been ripped apart. Its a great car and I love it but at the same time its the most impractical car you can buy.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by madfast

So the FT is supposedly going to have the lowest center of gravity in a production car. great! but it got me thinking. this car is going to be my DD. and most of you guys chose it as DD or dual purpose DD/track in the poll. so can they go too far?

for example, ride height. both for looks and handling, low to the ground is good. but can they make it too low? if i buy this car and i start scraping the bottom every time i get gas or go up a driveway imma be pissed...

another one that was already discussed is the spare tire. i'd rather lug the extra weight of a full size spare than be stranded on the side of the road...

and then there are the extremists asking for no AC, no power windows, etc.

so can this car become too sporty for its own good? so much so that it becomes annoying for everyday life?

No.


Please, let this car be extreme and defined. Please, let this car be something other than another moronic compromise (I'm looking at you, Honda!). Please, let someone at the top say, "This is it. Take it or leave it." Please, let's have everyone take it or leave it.

And I'm saying this in the most polite and friendly sort of a way. No offense intended.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by kuruma

I'm just gonna throw my 2c in here.
The ridiculousness of some of these topics amaze me. What the hell do you mean can a sports car be too sporty? no it cant. That's what it is, a sports car. If its too low, too small, or *insert another complaint here* then its not the type of car you are looking for and buy your standard grocery getter corrolla.
I think, and I dont know if I speak for the rest of you guys, that most of us here care about light weight, handling, and overall fun (plus what it looks like). Not how easy it will be to get my grandma into it or go offroading with it.

There is a very large gap between a racecar and econobox as far as practicality. A sports coupe(which the FRS/BRZ is in fact) is no where near as die-hard as a racecar built for the streets nor as sedate as a sedan. Otherwise it would be a sports car with 2 seats and all of the options out the window, especially at this price range. Or it would be a sedan.

This car is not being marketed as a racecar, but there is some expectations of sportiness. If it is built like most cars here than it would look like a 4x4 with large amounts of wheel gap and have a soft suspension setup. Which is most definitely not something I would expect or want out of this car.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Owning a car that's low from the factory (S2000, ITR, etc) just means you take a different approach to how you drive the car in certain situations, speed bumps, driveways, etc. You just go slow. I've never bottomed out my cars being careful.

Thanks for your input. My only experience with a low car is a Camaro RS and I wasn't driving. That car bottomed out very easily . It didn't help that it was being driven much like a truck, which is also the vehicle class I have the most experience driving . So I am pretty nervous. A test drive isn't going to tell me if I can or cannot park my shiny new sports car in my own driveway.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by oneday

First of all, with the LF-A now claiming a 7:14 on Nordschleife vs the GT-R's 7:24 the LF-A and GT-R are not competitors in performance or price. Secondly, how would a <$100K car (the Supra would have to be a $60k-80K car in my estimation) scavenge sales from a $400K super car?

The Supra would need to compete with the Corvette, 911, & Evora, just to name a few.

Wait to compare apples to apples with the LFA and GTR. You're comparing the 2012MY LFA Ring Edition (of which only 50 will exist) to the 2011MY GTR. The 2011MY GTR on a semi-wet track ran a 7:24.22 vs the 2011MY LFA Non Ring Edition's 7:38 on a dry track.

All I'm saying is wait to see what the much improved 2012MY GTR and even the 2012MY GTR GT3 do before declaring the LFA superior.

[fatoni]

ring times are not an measure of a better car

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by fatoni

ring times are not an measure of a better car

Agreed. I'm more of a strip guy myself.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Agreed. I'm more of a strip guy myself.

thats kind of the other end of the spectrum but at least that is more of a quantitative measurement. but at the end of the day if strip times on stock cars is where its at then wrx > sti so i dont know abou that

[Shadowsong6]

Funny, he's a strip guy with an FD3S, I'm a curvy road/track guy with a Mustang.... there's something odd here...

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by fatoni

while we are talking about ground clearance, i think what most people mean is suspension travel as that would affect ride quality a little more.

the difference between high 20s and 40s is huge. you reason that toyota doesnt have any sports cars but neither does scion. scion has that no haggle policy that will cost dealers all the markup the market would warrant. one sports car isnt really a problem for a company.

sometimes one is all it needs. lotus only has the evora. before the lfa (if that counts) lexus had what? isf. before the gtr nissan had the z. arguably mercedes has the slk. hyundai has the genesis coupe. mazda has the miata. you really only need one sports car in a lineup because they only have one goal. not like other segments

10K difference is not huge. That's kind of the point. It's what separates different models from each other a lot of the time.

20K is huge.

Scion has the FR-S/FT-86, did you not notice that?

Mercedes has the SLK? You think that's their one sports car?? You sure you don't mean the SLR? Even then there's several AMG models that are pretty damn fast.

Mazda is killing off the RX8, but till then they have 2 sports cars.

So anyways. What's your point?

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Because, F'k Scion?

Srsly, a $40k Scion isn't going to fly, much less a proper supra, is going to be well over $40k...

Toyota has an image problem. You can only go so far to solving that by releasing products under a different brand, regardless of the fact that they are by the same company and sold in the same showrooms. See for example Pontiac/Saturn/Chevy or GAP/Banana Republic/Old Navy. their idea is to have a natural progression in ownership from scion > Toyota > Lexus, isn't it? If all the young folk skip Toyota, then who are gonna buy them once the current "old" clientel have died off?

Again, were not talking about them trying to do this tomorrow. It's going to be 4-5 years before we would ever see a new Supra, at the earliest. Scions price point will be creeping up in the meantime.

Why would it be well over $40K? If I can buy a Corvette with all it's electronic goodies for $40K why can't Toyota make a simpler Supra for about $40K?

No I don't think it is. A lot of people just simply stick with Toyota and never move up. I think the idea is to have Sporty/Fun=Scion Truck/DD=Toyota Sporty/Luxury=Lexus. That's how they have positioned all those brands and have done very well so far doing it.

The Camry is going to be the Pace Car for some NASCAR race, and has been the top selling car 13 of the last 14 years. Toyota doesn't have an image problem. They had a slight problem after the Gas Pedal debacle. But that's largely passed over.

They don't have a true sports car in the mix right now. But by and large nobody cares because most people don't DD a sports car. They buy Camrys and Tacomas. But the times they are changing and we might see Toyota's return to Sports cars. But in the States they will all be Scions.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Yeah, a big one.

Lexus FT-HS = new Supra.

A big one what? YOU don't like Scion therefore Toyota will bow to your wishes?

FT-HS doesn't seem to be getting traction inside Toyota. So I doubt we'll see it. It's an interesting idea for sure. But getting all that technology to work together? And how often would people actually use it for Track Duty?

No I don't see anything like that for 15+ years. I think Hybrids will become much more ingrained before something like that comes out. Real Sporty Hybrids like what the CR-Z was trying to be will come out before that.

I truly think that if Toyota wants to come out with a Supra Replacement, they'll go with the tried and true approach of a straight 6, with less Technology. A bigger FT-86, perhaps slightly less nimble and track friendly, but with big numbers.

But, we'll see. It's also very likely we'll never see a true Supra Replacement.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by oneday

I've been to multiple track days with a guy that runs his X-Runner and it holds its own quite well. I've also autocrossed against one a few time...they are lower than you think.

LOL I just measured mine sitting out in the driveway. I've got a pretty good idea how low they are .

Originally Posted by Shadowsong6

I don't see that happening. I think it would still be a toyota, or possibly a lexus. They say that scion is 'youth targeted' so they prices would have to be on the lower end of the spectrum, I don't see them trying to push a 30-40k car in a youth oriented brand, especially considering the most expensive car scion currently sells is what, mid 20s? 26k-ish maybe?

I think a tC with every option +S/C is $30K. Baseline, $18K? I think.

It's funny but Scion has actually been moving away from the "Youth" brand. It's moving more to a sporty/funky/fun brand. Their marketing has grown up a little bit. But they still try to ooze that "Cool/underground" feeling. Most people just associate that with youth and youth culture. A lot of the people they marketed too originally are in their late 20's, early 30's.

I think they also realize that a good portion of the people they market too live in very urban areas and take public transit a lot, and might want a Car just to have fun in and be very sporty. These people have disposable income they might want to spend on Cars. They have their lower end models and higher end models. It's not that far fetched to begin with.

Then of course there's the spillover to old guys who want to seem cool or hip and buy these "youth brand" cars.

[Praetendere]

Originally Posted by Marrk

No.


Please, let this car be extreme and defined. Please, let this car be something other than another moronic compromise (I'm looking at you, Honda!). Please, let someone at the top say, "This is it. Take it or leave it." Please, let's have everyone take it or leave it.

And I'm saying this in the most polite and friendly sort of a way. No offense intended.

+1

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

10K difference is not huge. That's kind of the point. It's what separates different models from each other a lot of the time.

20K is huge.

Scion has the FR-S/FT-86, did you not notice that?

Mercedes has the SLK? You think that's their one sports car?? You sure you don't mean the SLR? Even then there's several AMG models that are pretty damn fast.

Mazda is killing off the RX8, but till then they have 2 sports cars.

So anyways. What's your point?

a 50% price increase is pretty big. 10k between a couple super cars or luxury barges is still pretty big but when you talk about a company that is pumping out 20k cars its gigantic.

the slr is huge and it isnt a sports car. amg make fast cars thats true but it takes more than fast to make a sports car.

my point is that you say it wouldnt make sense to have one sports car and i am saying that it does and most companies do that.

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

A big one what? YOU don't like Scion therefore Toyota will bow to your wishes?

A big reason why it won't be a Scion......

.....but I'll see what I can do for you next time I tell Toyota what to do!

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

FT-HS doesn't seem to be getting traction inside Toyota. So I doubt we'll see it.

Reports say it was put on backburner due to Toyobaru and market conditions (GFC?). Reports also say Lexus still working on development.

I still wonder if this was just a precursor to the FT-86?

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

It's an interesting idea for sure. But getting all that technology to work together?

Has done for years. Uses same hybrid technology all their other hybrids use. Reports are suggesting a traditional gas version, as well as a hybrid, just like the rest of their line up.

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

And how often would people actually use it for Track Duty?

???

How often do people use their Ferrari or Lamborghini for track duty?

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

No I don't see anything like that for 15+ years. I think Hybrids will become much more ingrained before something like that comes out. Real Sporty Hybrids like what the CR-Z was trying to be will come out before that.

Lexus seems to be all about hybrids these days. Their hybrid engines look similar in concept to the CR-Z's, not to mention more powerful than the gas only versions. 75% of all hybrids sold in USA are Toyota's.

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

I truly think that if Toyota wants to come out with a Supra Replacement, they'll go with the tried and true approach of a straight 6, with less Technology. A bigger FT-86, perhaps slightly less nimble and track friendly, but with big numbers.

I can't see straight 6 happening at all, and I'm sure it'll pack all the latest tech!

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

But, we'll see. It's also very likely we'll never see a true Supra Replacement.

Depends on how you define true? I thought the LF-A was a Supra replacement.

Here's an interesting read. It also points towards another MR2 as well!
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0625-z78h.html