Coil springs on OEM shocks

[wparsons]

^^ I fail to see how that's true if you care about handling more than being low...

You need to spend about $2200 minimum to get quality coilovers, which is about double what a set of Koni yellows and quality springs will cost, or about quadruple what a quality set of springs (RCE Yellows, Sprint, etc) will cost.

$1000 coilovers will get you low, but they won't handle properly on anything but glass smooth pavement.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by wparsons

^^ I fail to see how that's true if you care about handling more than being low...

You need to spend about $2200 minimum to get quality coilovers, which is about double what a set of Koni yellows and quality springs will cost, or about quadruple what a quality set of springs (RCE Yellows, Sprint, etc) will cost.

$1000 coilovers will get you low, but they won't handle properly on anything but glass smooth pavement.

Agreed.

[_F-R-S_]

Not true iv rode in frs with bc and it was smooth. I was just stating that over time the original shcks will need to be changed

[Tim_Asphalt_FRS]

Originally Posted by _F-R-S_

Not true iv rode in frs with bc and it was smooth. I was just stating that over time the original shcks will need to be changed

So, just like every other car then. Cool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bri99s91]

The only way I see the need for coilovers is if your really serious about racing. Just so you can dial your dampening and ride height perfectly for how you drive. But a good set of springs with a good set of struts will be more than adequate for the weekend racer that also needs to drive their car all week.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

The OEM shocks are actually pretty decent. The old saying of "you have to upgrade shocks when you use lowering springs" is not always true. In this case, the OEM shocks can handle a decent amount of spring rate. A big drop as others have said will cause problems because there is not a lot of bump travel...anything over an inch or 25mm is too much in my opinion for optimal handling and ride quality. We stuck with a 20mm drop plus we include replacement shortened bumpstops with our RCE Yellow springs.

Below is a shock dyno test we ran on the OEM dampers.



There is a lot to gain by going to Koni or Bilstein eventually (when they come out) but for most street drivers the OEM shocks will do the trick.

- Andrew

will be getting the yellow for my FRS. when will you make a cupkit with struts shocks springs ? i love the kit you have for the 04 STI , buddy of mine has them they are soo good for track and off track.

[Racecomp Engineering]

We'll have a Koni Yellow + RCE Yellow package once they're out.

Eventually we'll have custom valved Bilsteins but that's a much longer process and I don't know when that will happen.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by _F-R-S_

Not true iv rode in frs with bc and it was smooth. I was just stating that over time the original shcks will need to be changed

BCs do work well for many of the customers that are looking for them. We do get a lot of customers that have taken off their BC/Megan/Ksport/D2 etc. and want something higher quality but for many who just have to have coilovers at a low price they do the job for many of those customers. They are one size fits all damping/spring rate made to fit a variety of cars, which is how they get the cost so low and why handling is not ideal (because the shocks themselves and their valving is not designed specifically for the FRS/BRZ). Is there a handling improvement over stock? Well they are a lot stiffer so there is a lot to gain from just that and it "feels" different, but they do have their drawbacks.

BCs do wear out too...the pillowball mounts and the shocks. Yes you can can a replacement shock insert for 100 bucks or whatever and that gives you some ideas.

In my opinion a quality spring + shock package + a few bushings would be better all-around fun daily driver set-up. Durable, great ride quality, fun, fast, and easy to drive. As I've said the original shocks are pretty good and I expect them to last a long time with a drop of an inch or less. Konis or Bilsteins even longer (and both are rebuildable with real warranties).

Shocks and quality valving are really important and a good foundation for a suspension set-up, so I don't like to make sacrifices there for other features, like height adjustability if it's not really needed. The stock shocks are pretty good, and will work well and last long for a normal daily driver with a mild/medium drop lowering spring. It's a great inexpensive solution that I would not hesitate to run on my car.

- Andrew

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by _F-R-S_

Not true iv rode in frs with bc and it was smooth. I was just stating that over time the original shcks will need to be changed

Just because it rides smooth there's no direct correlation to how well it's going to handle. Old Buicks ride really smooth for an example.

What makes it handle well is proper valving AND adequate bump travel. A shorter bump stroke means higher spring rates which gives less traction. Hitting the bump stop on a street isn't always harsh, but on a track it transfers all the weight possible to that corner and makes a car handle funny.

Over time the original shocks will need to be changed in any car, even with stock springs. If you look at the replacement interval some shock manufacturers recommend, it's only 50k miles (80k km's). From what I've read, I doubt the lifespan of the stock shocks will be drastically reduced just by replacing the stock springs with a good quality spring. The harder driving that tends to come with replacing springs will probably wear them out faster than the springs themselves.

[Mikepage]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

BCs do work well for many of the customers that are looking for them. We do get a lot of customers that have taken off their BC/Megan/Ksport/D2 etc. and want something higher quality but for many who just have to have coilovers at a low price they do the job for many of those customers. They are one size fits all damping/spring rate made to fit a variety of cars, which is how they get the cost so low and why handling is not ideal (because the shocks themselves and their valving is not designed specifically for the FRS/BRZ). Is there a handling improvement over stock? Well they are a lot stiffer so there is a lot to gain from just that and it "feels" different, but they do have their drawbacks.

BCs do wear out too...the pillowball mounts and the shocks. Yes you can can a replacement shock insert for 100 bucks or whatever and that gives you some ideas.

In my opinion a quality spring + shock package + a few bushings would be better all-around fun daily driver set-up. Durable, great ride quality, fun, fast, and easy to drive. As I've said the original shocks are pretty good and I expect them to last a long time with a drop of an inch or less. Konis or Bilsteins even longer (and both are rebuildable with real warranties).

Shocks and quality valving are really important and a good foundation for a suspension set-up, so I don't like to make sacrifices there for other features, like height adjustability if it's not really needed. The stock shocks are pretty good, and will work well and last long for a normal daily driver with a mild/medium drop lowering spring. It's a great inexpensive solution that I would not hesitate to run on my car.

- Andrew

Originally Posted by wparsons

Just because it rides smooth there's no direct correlation to how well it's going to handle. Old Buicks ride really smooth for an example.

What makes it handle well is proper valving AND adequate bump travel. A shorter bump stroke means higher spring rates which gives less traction. Hitting the bump stop on a street isn't always harsh, but on a track it transfers all the weight possible to that corner and makes a car handle funny.

Over time the original shocks will need to be changed in any car, even with stock springs. If you look at the replacement interval some shock manufacturers recommend, it's only 50k miles (80k km's). From what I've read, I doubt the lifespan of the stock shocks will be drastically reduced just by replacing the stock springs with a good quality spring. The harder driving that tends to come with replacing springs will probably wear them out faster than the springs themselves.

Thank you guys to provide a lot of details and precisions about suspensions setup.

I will probably buy a good set of springs who lower not more then 1" and i'm going to be happy.

Now, Race Comp or Hotchkis??? Can you help me to make my choice

I need to be lowered and more stiffness and maybe i need to keep the oversteer possibility.

I think this kit is pretty cool with the rear camber adjustment : http://www.racecompengineering.com/i.../brz-lite.html

What's do you think?

[Captain Insano]

Agree ^^^

Thanks Racecomp for the honest feedback on OEM shocks.

[Captain Insano]

I looked for (for reference what it might equate to for future BRZ option) this on your site and couldn't find the Koni Yellow + RCE Yellow package for the STi cars. Did I possibly miss them on the site in the STi suspension parts listings?

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

We'll have a Koni Yellow + RCE Yellow package once they're out.

Eventually we'll have custom valved Bilsteins but that's a much longer process and I don't know when that will happen.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

The Konis are not quite out yet for BRZ/FRS but will be soon.

turn in concepts has beem testing the konis with our rce yellow springs and we are excited to be able to offer them. Koni does not make an option for STI, so we don't have anything to compare to. I'd expect the package to be under 1k though.

- drew

[Mikepage]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16102

I just read this topic about Race Comp Yellow Springs and find this detail "clunking/popping sounds from the front struts when turning over bumps".

But Myles say :

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I drove on this setup for about 6 weeks and yes on BIGG bumps you get the normal THUD from any strut suspension with firmer springs etc. The issue I remember with assembly of the front struts is that unless you pay super close attention to the assembly of the noise isolator as you release the tension of the spring in the compressor its SUPER easy for the TOP rubber noise isolator to get deformed and this allows METAL ON METAL contact of the spring and the upper perch.......on PART of the front contact area. SO in other words part of the spring is resting on the rubber isolator and part is on the perch.

As for the COM-C hats, I also have these on my car now with JRZ's and 400 lb springs. On BIG INNER CITY nasty bumps , yes I get a THUD also. Notice the clearance between the UPPER perch and the WL com-C hat? I will find another picture to show this better but I have already called Whiteline USA about this. So I await their response. THAT is not the same as what the op is talking about but I bring it up as its related but could be heard on the LARGER bumps.

http://https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.ne...09371278_o.jpg

Picture is hosted on our FB page if this doesnt show up.

So the clearance changes when turning and when going over bumps.

When we installed the Com-c hats or even when we did the regular mounts we found it took several attempts to get the rubber isolator to align with the perch AND get the spring to sit properly on the bottom perch. This is MUCH more difficult than on an Impreza, MUCH.

Check the installation l

My cell is 443 370 9000 is anyone has any questions.

Myles

Maybe you can resume Andrew :P

I have a question also Andrew, do i need to change the front top plate if i install your Springs? I know with you have a kit with the rear damper adjustment but what's about the front?