AP Racing brake systems in development

[MSTiFK8R]

Jeff, very clean and nice to look at!

hopefully I will test fit your Endurance system this spring

and not only me, but some people around would definitely appreciate anti-rattle solution for using full-floating discs daily

I recall we spoke that's possible


Mike

[Hanakuso]

Ordered! I also purchased some Hawk HPS front pads. I forgot who to spoke to but he said they should be a decent match for my rears that use OEM pads right now. Anyone know what matches the AP Racing C300? I don't believe they make C300 in OEM rear sizes yet.

[Dave-ROR]

C300 rears should be available soon. I'm currently using XP8s in the back that I already had.

Switching to AP S100 street pads up front tonight.. holy hell C300's SCREAM on the street

So has anyone tried these brakes on PRF1 17x9 +35 instead of the +45? Otherwise what size spacer did people with the 9+45 have to go with for it to work?

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

Ordered! I also purchased some Hawk HPS front pads. I forgot who to spoke to but he said they should be a decent match for my rears that use OEM pads right now. Anyone know what matches the AP Racing C300? I don't believe they make C300 in OEM rear sizes yet.

Thank you very much for the order!
We got word from AP that the C300's rears will be shipping early next week. With the holiday, that means we should have them here on Monday 11/26.

Jeff, very clean and nice to look at!

hopefully I will test fit your Endurance system this spring

and not only me, but some people around would definitely appreciate anti-rattle solution for using full-floating discs daily

I recall we spoke that's possible


Mike

Thanks Mike. There is a potential solution being installed on a car right now. Stay in touch with me and I'll keep you in the loop with results.

C300 rears should be available soon. I'm currently using XP8s in the back that I already had.

Switching to AP S100 street pads up front tonight.. holy hell C300's SCREAM on the street

Yes, C300's cold sound like a loaded freight train trying to stop for a car sitting on the tracks. Hot on the track though, they are killer pads and work awesome!

@JRitt
Had a quick glance over the fitting instructions and noticed these ambiguities:
"(Left/Driver)","(Right/Passenger)","Driver side" and "Passenger side". I appreciate you're in the U.S.A. but I'm thinking these kits will be going overseas too.

Could you please elaborate...what is the confusion? Thanks for the help!

So has anyone tried these brakes on PRF1 17x9 +35 instead of the +45? Otherwise what size spacer did people with the 9+45 have to go with for it to work?

I don't know that anyone has tried this yet, but I'll try to get an answer straight from Enkei if possible. Thanks.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by JRitt

Could you please elaborate...what is the confusion? Thanks for the help!

He's saying that "Drivers side" could mean either the left, or right, hand side of the car depending on where the user lives.

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

He's saying that "Drivers side" could mean either the left, or right, hand side of the car depending on where the user lives.

Got it. Sorry about that...I'll have my people talk to their people, and get it sorted. Thanks for pointing it out.

The next thing you know, someone will drop a bombshell on me, and tell me that there are people who not only sit on the wrong side of the car, they also drive on the wrong side of the road!

[track_warrior]

Originally Posted by JRitt

Got it. Sorry about that...I'll have my people talk to their people, and get it sorted. Thanks for pointing it out.

The next thing you know, someone will drop a bombshell on me, and tell me that there are people who not only sit on the wrong side of the car, they also drive on the wrong side of the road!

lol

[D1cker]

Originally Posted by Paragon

So has anyone tried these brakes on PRF1 17x9 +35 instead of the +45? Otherwise what size spacer did people with the 9+45 have to go with for it to work?

You'll need a 3-5mm spacer for the +35 RPF1's

(I have the 17x9 +35 and the template just barely touches the spokes)

Originally Posted by D1cker

You'll need a 3-5mm spacer for the +35 RPF1's

(I have the 17x9 +35 and the template just barely touches the spokes)

There goes the track set up. Anyone running 9 inch wide wheels without spacers with this brake setup?

[coyote]

Originally Posted by JRitt

The next thing you know, someone will drop a bombshell on me, and tell me that there are people who not only sit on the wrong side of the car, they also drive on the wrong side of the road!

I'm sure you saw plenty ... on your way to work.

[Dave-ROR]

Initial Review/Opinion of the Essex Competition Sprint Brake kit:
One of the items I laughed off when Matt posted his review was how noticable the reduction of 20lbs of unsprung weight is up front. I've changed to lighter wheels before (but often going with bigger tires which offset some of the weight savings, or in the BRZ's case actually resulted in a net GAIN of weight) and I have never noticed ANY difference in how the car felt or performed. This WAS noticable though. I was shocked that it was noticable because I've always put it off as placebo in the past based on my experiences before with lighter weight components but I noticed it here even after I already discounted it and wasn't even looking for it. The increase in steering feel is welcome as the wider tires did deaden it a little (not much, it still had more feel than my S2000 did IMO). I haven't noticed any difference in turn in like Matt did but that's probably just my insensitivity to it.

Pedal feel:
About the same as stock when cold. When hot, the pedal doesn't change much like it did stock. Also the noise/feel (a loud clank/smack in my case) that I had at Sebring with the stock components (using ATE Super Blue and XP10/XP8 pads) was gone. You can feel ABS (and maybe EBD, the pedal does some weird stuff at times, but I'm not use to fancy technology in my track cars...) more easily if you have plenty of traction but with reduced traction I wouldn't feel it until after they locked. That was the same as stock though.

How they feel on track:
The C300 pads have a decent amount of initial bite, but they aren't crazy like Hawk Blues and other pads that have pretty high levels of bite. On the other hand that makes them very progressive in my opinion. You can easily modulate the pedal on track to get whatever you want out of them. They come back off the rotor smoothly also. I'm a pretty hard braker though Either way the progressive nature and smoothness in application/pedal lift is nice. With the C300 front and XP8 (not an essex suggested setup btw) the car still has too much front bias. That's not surprising given the difference in coefficient of friction between the C300 and XP8s. This continues to hurt the ability to trail brake the car. Once the C300 rears ship I'll be able to see if equal pads front and rear solves that problem. Overall the car was very stable under braking with only a touch of twitchy behavior in heavy braking where the rear end didn't seem to be slowing down enough (I say that versas other explanations because it didn't happen with less agressive front pads). More agressive rear pads should at least fix that issue.

Track Video:
To avoid posting the video in another thread, I'll just post the link that you can follow to see the video if you want: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=163

How they've held up so far:
So far I've only done about 900 miles combined street and track driving with the brakes installed. About ~130 miles of that is on Sebring. Basically about 110 minutes of hot laps and about 30 minutes of slow standing yellow laps. So far they've held up to the heat of track use *flawlessy*. They stop every time, without change in feel or effectiveness thus far. I can drive off track after 30 minutes of turning laps and the brakes are NOT smoking like the stock ones were after similar usage. No boiling fluid, no ripping the face off the rotor, etc. I was braking much later on Sebring than I was before because I actually had confidence that the brakes were going to do their job EVERY time.

Consumables:
Pads:
I'm currently using the AP C300 front pads. These things are LOUD on the street by the way so when/if you buy this kit GET SOME STREET PADS ALSO! FWIW, the AP S100 pads also make some noise on the street so if you want it to be completely silent I'd suggest talking to @JRitt about other street pads that will be more mild than the AP S100 pads. Anyways, back to the C300s. Below are some pics of the pads after the usage they've had so far, the crumbling on the edge of the pads isn't anything to be concerned with. I am getting some minor cracking closer to the backing plates that I am monitoring for now. Jeff Ritter will actually see the pads in person next month as I'm stopping by Essex to say Hi on the way to a friends shop in Charlotte.





So far I've experienced about 1mm of pad wear on the trailing edges and about 2mm of pad wear on the leading edges. The worst pad experienced 3mm of pad wear on the leading edge (it was the only one), as seen below:


Here's a new S100 next to the used C300:


Pads in the calipers before removal:



So, it's looking good so far! For comparison I used at LEAST 5-6mm on Carbotech XP10s with similar usage plus an extra 30 minutes or so at Mid Ohio (where I wasn't pushing much) and a lot more street mileage, which kills rotors well before track pads.

Rotors:
I didn't measure the rotors, but they appear to have virtually no wear. There are no lips, uneven wear, grooving, etc. And unlike my OEM rotors, no surface delamination either

Passenger Side:



Driver Side:




Ease of install/maintenance:
I could have posted this in the original post when I installed everything but I wanted to wait until I had some usage and a pad change completed before doing so. The install itself was VERY easy. I was able to do it myself (minus the bleeding part) in a few hours taking my time and including the installation of extended studs in the front (off the car using a press, etc). It's really as easy as the instructions say. I basically did both sides at the same time instead of one side at a time so I wouldn't have to keep switching tools/sockets as often, but either that or doing one side at a time shouldn't change the install time too much. Changing pads was also easy, I just put a bleed tube on the outer bleeding screw attached to a bottle, removed one pad, loosened the bleeder, used two old pads to force those pistons back in (pushing excess fluid into the bleed hose), installed new pad on that side, repeated for the second pad, closed bleeder, reinstalled bridge/bolt/nut and cleaned up excess fluid at the bleeder. Repeat for the second side. One note that I think Matt (or someone else) pointed out, the outer bleeder is somewhat annoying to use. It's not impossible with a fairly standard box end wrench but an extra 2mm of clearance would make it a MUCH easier task. All in all that's not a big deal and it works fine. Oh and yes, I'll bleed them before going back on track since I had the bleeder open, even though no air should be able to enter in theory.. I'd bleed them again anyways before tracking it again.

Next brake upgrades:
I'm currently using the OEM lines, I'll be installing the Spiegler SS lines on all 4 corners before my next HPDE (which is December 2nd at Atlanta Motorsports Park). Hopefully I'll also have C300 pads to start running in the rear before that event.

Noise:
Besides the pad noise under braking (which varies with pads and applies to all brake systems), you will occasionally notice the pads moving around which results in a "click". This usually only happens in reverse when you apply the brakes. Sometimes it happens over bumps. It's just the pads moving around a bit and is nothing to be concerned about. Some of the street kits will use anti-rattle solutions to prevent that so if a little noise is a concern for you I'd look at one of the more street oriented kits. I stress that it's very minor noise and only happens under those specific circumstances.

Conclusion:
As I've stated a few times here before.. I was wrong when I thought the stock brakes would be fine for track use. They simply can't handle the heat this car is somehow generating up front. How this is happening is beyond my comprehension but it is occuring regardless. We do need bigger heatsinks up front and this kit does a great job of doing so while making so many other improvements it's a no brainer for me. I'm one of those who would prefer a kit like this to a massive 14" rotor, 6 piston setup. This is a light setup that handles track duties wonderfully, loses 20lbs total unsprung weight up front, has cheaper front pads than stock, allows me to use many 17" wheels, some with spacers some without, and has what should be longer consumables lifespan to boot. I have had no regrets about buying the BRZ, and I've had no regrets about upgrading to these brakes either.

[Dave-ROR]

Oh and one last pic, just for the bling lugnuts that are now on the car lol I hate the color of these things but I do like that they cover the entire stud..

[Hanakuso]

Great review. I'll probably throw a review together in a month or so. It will be coming from a noobs perspective tho

Btw, did the yellow lettering fade or discolor?