FR-S vs. Used Sports Car Market

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

So why don't you comment on Toyota's issues.

Because Subaru is building the powertrain on the FT-86.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Because Subaru is building the powertrain on the FT-86.

You make it sound like Subaru has issues with every car. Even your beloved Honda has issues. 2.5 millions being recalled this month. With this being a NA engine I wouldn't worry. If you do, get a Hyundai.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

You make it sound like Subaru has issues with every car. Even your beloved Honda has issues. 2.5 millions being recalled this month. With this being a NA engine I wouldn't worry. If you do, get a Hyundai.

Relax, tranz. It's just a question.


I wasn't the one who brought up issues with Subbie engines blowing up. Somebody posted a link to the Subbie site.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Relax, tranz. It's just a question.


I wasn't the one who brought up issues with Subbie engines blowing up. Somebody posted a link to the Subbie site.

I don't think you got my point. My point is that even companies with great reliability and quality reputations (Honda, Toyota) have issues and recalls. The issue is long term reputation and not isolated issues. Subaru has a very good reputation (discard performance turbo engines of late). It is thr turbo engines that some Subbienowners have issues with. Other engines are well built and designed. Just ask any Subaru owner. Many keep them until they die.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I don't think you got my point. My point is that even companies with great reliability and quality reputations (Honda, Toyota) have issues and recalls. The issue is long term reputation and not isolated issues. Subaru has a very good reputation (discard performance turbo engines of late). It is thr turbo engines that some Subbienowners have issues with. Other engines are well built and designed. Just ask any Subaru owner. Many keep them until they die.

Amen to that. I know I gonna be keeping my GM6 (Impreza coupe)

[SUB-FT86]

I have a feeling this car will be reliable because it will have a less is more mantra. My RSX is a base and I had it for almost 5 years, and in that 5 years I have spent $1,700 in upkeep like maintenance. That is freaking impressive!!!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I don't think you got my point. My point is that even companies with great reliability and quality reputations (Honda, Toyota) have issues and recalls. The issue is long term reputation and not isolated issues. Subaru has a very good reputation (discard performance turbo engines of late). It is thr turbo engines that some Subbienowners have issues with. Other engines are well built and designed. Just ask any Subaru owner. Many keep them until they die.

Before the recent turbos blowing up ringlands, the early EJ25 NA's had a ton of headgasket issues. Early turbos were pretty good. First gen turbo 2.2L Legacy engines were probably the most solid factory non-intercooled turbo built. Also WRX 5 speeds have a reputation of being fragile in some circles, but this is a pure abuse scenario. Hard, dropped-clutch launches + AWD grip = massive driveline stress.

Recently certain Subaru dealers have been getting a reputation of immediately denying warranty claims related to the engine on STI's and blaming the owners for abuse or 'tuned' ecus. Probably a result of many issues caused by tuned then deleted/unmarried ecus, but they haven't been going through the process of proving it. But there was supposed to be a factory tune problem on certain years. The late model STIs get a bit confusing...

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I don't think you got my point. My point is that even companies with great reliability and quality reputations (Honda, Toyota) have issues and recalls. The issue is long term reputation and not isolated issues. Subaru has a very good reputation (discard performance turbo engines of late). It is thr turbo engines that some Subbienowners have issues with. Other engines are well built and designed. Just ask any Subaru owner. Many keep them until they die.

^^You said this a couple of times already.




Let's try this:

1) Have you owned a Subaru with a boxer engine in it?

2) If so, would you say that Subaru's boxers are as reliable and durable as inline-4s from Toyota and Honda?

If the answer is 1) Yes and 2) Yes, then that's good enough for me. If not, then I'd like to leave the topic on the table for further forum discussion.


P.S. I'm not saying that Subarus are no good. I'm just trying to learn about a manufacturer and an engine design that are both new to me.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Before the recent turbos blowing up ringlands, the early EJ25 NA's had a ton of headgasket issues. Early turbos were pretty good. First gen turbo 2.2L Legacy engines were probably the most solid factory non-intercooled turbo built. Also WRX 5 speeds have a reputation of being fragile in some circles, but this is a pure abuse scenario. Hard, dropped-clutch launches + AWD grip = massive driveline stress.

That engine was impossible to break! I'm not joking on this. That EJ22T was solid as it can get. Too bad next gen Legacy twin turbo (JDM only) was POS

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Marrk

^^You said this a couple of times already.

Let's try this:

1) Have you owned a Subaru with a boxer engine in it?

2) If so, would you say that Subaru's boxers are as reliable and durable as inline-4s from Toyota and Honda?

If the answer is 1) Yes and 2) Yes, then that's good enough for me. If not, then I'd like to leave the topic on the table for further forum discussion.


P.S. I'm not saying that Subarus are no good. I'm just trying to learn about a manufacturer and an engine design that are both new to me.

1) Yes. My parents had a first gen Impreza when I grew up. Had over 200,000 miles on when I got the car to use for college. Lasted me during college until another car hit me and I had just over 250,000 miles on it at that point.

2) I say the Subaru non turbo boxer 4s are just as reliable as inline 4s from other manufacturers from my experience and those of other family members/friends who drive Subaru. Each company runs into issues. As I said even Toyota and Honda are fallible. From my experience with a Subaru NA engine, it was rock solid and gave my family and me no issues.


Dimman, I think the WRX 5 speed issue is from those who did not run stock. From the few guys I know who had WRX cars they never claimed about the transmission until they started doing mods. Also agree about the clutch drops playing apart of the abuse some put on their cars. The STI engine has given some owners issues however it is one of the most commonly tuned/flashed/modded turbo cars around. Some of these issues are manufacture based but some are also end user based.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

1) Yes. My parents had a first gen Impreza when I grew up. Had over 200,000 miles on when I got the car to use for college. Lasted me during college until another car hit me and I had just over 250,000 miles on it at that point.

2) I say the Subaru non turbo boxer 4s are just as reliable as inline 4s from other manufacturers from my experience and those of other family members/friends who drive Subaru. Each company runs into issues. As I said even Toyota and Honda are fallible. From my experience with a Subaru NA engine, it was rock solid and gave my family and me no issues.


Dimman, I think the WRX 5 speed issue is from those who did not run stock. From the few guys I know who had WRX cars they never claimed about the transmission until they started doing mods. Also agree about the clutch drops playing apart of the abuse some put on their cars. The STI engine has given some owners issues however it is one of the most commonly tuned/flashed/modded turbo cars around. Some of these issues are manufacture based but some are also end user based.

The COBB Accessport and open-source tuning is really playing hell on their reputation I think.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

1) Yes. My parents had a first gen Impreza when I grew up. Had over 200,000 miles on when I got the car to use for college. Lasted me during college until another car hit me and I had just over 250,000 miles on it at that point.

2) I say the Subaru non turbo boxer 4s are just as reliable as inline 4s from other manufacturers from my experience and those of other family members/friends who drive Subaru. Each company runs into issues. As I said even Toyota and Honda are fallible. From my experience with a Subaru NA engine, it was rock solid and gave my family and me no issues.


Dimman, I think the WRX 5 speed issue is from those who did not run stock. From the few guys I know who had WRX cars they never claimed about the transmission until they started doing mods. Also agree about the clutch drops playing apart of the abuse some put on their cars. The STI engine has given some owners issues however it is one of the most commonly tuned/flashed/modded turbo cars around. Some of these issues are manufacture based but some are also end user based.

Good information. Thank you, tranz.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Dimman

The COBB Accessport and open-source tuning is really playing hell on their reputation I think.

I certainly hope not. This could put a damper on tuning really quickly. Honda has already started using a firewall on some of their ECUs like for the L series engines.

As for Subaru reliability, I've mostly heard good things about the N/A Subaru Boxers, especially the older ones that have hundreds of thousands of miles. Many of the older generation engines that I've seen were still going well past 200K miles.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I certainly hope not. This could put a damper on tuning really quickly. Honda has already started using a firewall on some of their ECUs like for the L series engines.

I wouldn't be surprised if more manufacturers begin making it even more difficult to crack the ECU or make it possible for them to see if the ECU is messed with.