FR-S vs. Used Sports Car Market

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Marrk

That doesn't look good.

It may be a bit deceiving because of how easy people can 'tune' their cars themselves with COBB Accessports, etc...

A lot of those could be poorly tuned, blown up, flashed back to stock, and then taken to dealers for service. But it does seem to be more of a '09+ problem rather than all STIs, so who knows?

[tree fingers]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I would since every car was not affected and many forums blow things out of proportion as those affected tend to be the vocal minority and make the loudest stink and those with no issues hardly speak up or have anything to complain about.

I could understand referring to a seatbelt malfunction or minor electrical trouble as a small issue, but just because every single Subaru hasn't experienced ring-land failure doesn't make it a small issue. That's sort of like saying a stroke isn't really a big deal, because it doesn't happen to everyone. It may very well be related to the aggressive nature of some of the open source tunes, but it's happened to enough people for me to consider it an engineering flaw.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by tree fingers

I could understand referring to a seatbelt malfunction or minor electrical trouble as a small issue, but just because every single Subaru hasn't experienced ring-land failure doesn't make it a small issue. That's sort of like saying a stroke isn't really a big deal, because it doesn't happen to everyone. It may very well be related to the aggressive nature of some of the open source tunes, but it's happened to enough people for me to consider it an engineering flaw.

So, what's the cause? What's the "flaw" in the design? No we know?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Marrk

So, what's the cause? What's the "flaw" in the design? No we know?

Either weak cast pistons, or a factory ECU tuned to almost no margin of error for temp or fuel differences (to meet increasingly stricter emissions requirements). Or a little of both.

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It may be a bit deceiving because of how easy people can 'tune' their cars themselves with COBB Accessports, etc...

A lot of those could be poorly tuned, blown up, flashed back to stock, and then taken to dealers for service. But it does seem to be more of a '09+ problem rather than all STIs, so who knows?

^ this. It's ping that breaks ring lands.

Saying that, you guys got cast pistons, we got forged!!!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

^ this. It's ping that breaks ring lands.

Saying that, you guys got cast pistons, we got forged!!!

I heard the EJ207 rocks harder everywhere than our EJ257. Despite being smaller.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Either weak cast pistons, or a factory ECU tuned to almost no margin of error for temp or fuel differences (to meet increasingly stricter emissions requirements). Or a little of both.

Wow. That kind of engineering doesn't build a lot of confidence in this first-time Subaru (slash Toyota) buyer.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Wow. That kind of engineering doesn't build a lot of confidence in this first-time Subaru (slash Toyota) buyer.

I wouldn't worry.

It's probably more Subaru trying to stretch out an ANCIENT design longer than they should have to meet emissions. Plus I think user error is a large factor with how easily they can be 'tuned' by noobs.

There were no engine issues with the first North American STIs or WRXs as far as I remember, and the COBB Accessport wasn't out then either. Correlation?

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I heard the EJ207 rocks harder everywhere than our EJ257. Despite being smaller.

We got the 207 in our STI's from '02 - '05 from memory, and they were awesome motors!

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Wow. That kind of engineering doesn't build a lot of confidence in this first-time Subaru (slash Toyota) buyer.

Why? Because they break if tuned incorrectly?

[tree fingers]

Short answer: Detonation.

If you start finding a lot of oil in your intercooler, there's a good sign you're experiencing DET.

AOS
Good, SAFE, Tune [Especially on certain model STI's. The consensus is that the MY07 tune is junk]
Oil Pressure Gauge
Oil Temp Gauge

Although, since the FR-S won't be getting the 2.5 litre motor, I don't know if anyone should be worried about it.

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Why? Because they break if tuned incorrectly?

To be fair, there are EJ25's that have experienced ring land failure on OEM tunes.

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

We got the 207 in our STI's from '02 - '05 from memory, and they were awesome motors!

Torque. The amount of torque the EJ257 produces is shocking for its size.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Why? Because they break if tuned incorrectly?

It's interesting how the 2JZGTE (also with cast pistons) has this reputation of being indestructible. But lately in the Supra community, as the price in Canada for Mk4's has come down and getting into the hands of noobs who want to 'tune' them, there are way more reports of failures.

Users can always out-stupid smart engineering.

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by tree fingers

Although, since the FR-S won't be getting the 2.5 litre motor, I don't know if anyone should be worried about it.

that and FT86 engine receiving make over from Toyota and yamaha.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's interesting how the 2JZGTE (also with cast pistons) has this reputation of being indestructible. But lately in the Supra community, as the price in Canada for Mk4's has come down and getting into the hands of noobs who want to 'tune' them, there are way more reports of failures.

Users can always out-stupid smart engineering.

Understood.

But I was responding to your original statement: "a factory ECU tuned to almost no margin of error for temp or fuel differences." If the factory is f.-ing up the engineering, then that ain't good.

EDIT: Unless you mean that owners are tuning a factory ECU and making it whack . . . ?