fr-s/brz vs 28k cars

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SciOnDrifTtSlIdeR

Drag racing is for *****s ! Lets see them firedubs drift.

as little as i get on with the drag community, its at least as decent as the drifting one. at least its an objective sport.

[DanoFA20]

after working in a euro garage for a year and living in VW land. i would never own one no offense to people who like them. sorry cant justify paying almost 30 grand for a front wheel peel car. also the 2.0T engines came in soooo many times with DI , highpreasure fuel pump failure gas tanks sucking in on themselves at 9000 miles. just a pain to work on in general. thats why i stepped away from German cars. just a pain in the butt to me.

to me rear wheel drive and LSD is the only way to appreciate a nice little light weight car.

if i wanted light FF id honestly go buy an Integra DC2 and drop in a B18B with type R trans thats a fun FF or a K20 engine those are fun. the japanese cars are easy to rip apart and put back together and cost less in my experience. :happy0180:

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by e30kawi

Where did they find an frs for that little? And a gti at 29k is loaded up with frivolous stuff that you can't get in an frs, at 29k it makes the same power as a sparse gti at at 21k. And just so people know, mkvi gtis usually dyno 200HP to the wheels and typically have 210lbs of torque stock at the tires. I know its front wheel drive /thread blah blah blah, but in same everyday driving does it matter that much, neither of them are race cars in stock form. Just throwing that out there, and I only went with the gti because it was 5k cheaper and had a very nice interior, etc.

Weird. The pricing is completely the other way around here in Canada. GTI goes for just a little over $29 k (base MSRP) and comparing to even the Auto FR-S at just over $27 k. The manual is even cheaper.

[ianz28]

Originally Posted by Ravenlokk

FRS as Tested:$24,930
GTI as Tested:$29,715

avo turbo kit <4000, ecuTEK tune <1000. I'm interested to see how a similarly priced and more similarly equipped frs would perform vs the GTI. Pretty sure it would spank the pants off the GTI. The very linear torque curve, and the modest bumps in power should still be very manageable with the stock suspension and brakes- so it should be faster in every "power" test, and laptime.

Keep in mind the GTI engine has a lot of power potential as well. A simple $600 stage 1 tune bumps the power up to a claimed 250 hp and 300 lb ft of tq. The aftermarket is quite extensive and the 2.0T is VW's go to engine that seems to be in all their cars.

I have a bigger issue with traction than anything.... The GTI should have come stock with a limited slip differential (supposed to be available on the next generation).

The GTI is a fun little practical car readily available on the used market for reasonable prices.

That said the GTI isn't a FRS/BRZ which has been well discussed here.

It doesn't matter how "sporty" a FWD car is. There simply is no replacement for the fun factor of a rear wheel drive sports car.

[OrbitalEllipses]

My opinion is that there's not a lot of value in the twins. It's a niche car for a very specific buyer. The WRX/GTI and cars like that have more value per dollar, but drive very differently. Ask yourselves...what do you want from the car? If value is something, you probably don't want one of the twins.

[ST185RC]

My honest opinion is that VW quality and workmanship sucks donkey balls.

Ever have a window fall into the door and break on a highway while it's pissing rain? My friend had in his 2009 passat.

Ever go for an oil change and a week later the low oil warning alarm comes on with a bone dry dipstick AND have the VW "mechanic" or tech say "It's common practice to carry a bottle of extra engine oil in the trunk"? My friend's 2008 GTI did.

Mind you these are stock cars and chipping them for more horsepower just makes it faster getting the car to disintegrate into oblivion. Every near new VW I've been in had some serious issue.

I stay away from VW like it's a fuckin' disease. Sure they have plush and nice interiors, it's there for when you need to relax at the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. It's like a car that's designed to have leprosy as a requisite.


Don't take my word for it, VW ranks 4th from the bottom in a survey of 34 other manufacturers.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/178357/n...ill-struggles/

Someone please tell me what good is carrying a lot of shit around if it can only get you somewhere between point A-B. I'd rather carry less and be able to get to point B. Das Autofail.

[Masato-san]

"A real man attacks the corners"

-Tsuchiya Keiichi-

I don't care how much faster the mustang/genesis/speed3/velociter/GTI is. Throw them into a corner watch them burn.

The only car I would consider at this price point is a used s2000 or NSX.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

My honest opinion is that VW quality and workmanship sucks donkey balls.

Ever have a window fall into the door and break on a highway while it's pissing rain? My friend had in his 2009 passat.

Ever go for an oil change and a week later the low oil warning alarm comes on with a bone dry dipstick AND have the VW "mechanic" or tech say "It's common practice to carry a bottle of extra engine oil in the trunk"? My friend's 2008 GTI did.

Mind you these are stock cars and chipping them for more horsepower just makes it faster getting the car to disintegrate into oblivion. Every near new VW I've been in had some serious issue.

I stay away from VW like it's a fuckin' disease. Sure they have plush and nice interiors, it's there for when you need to relax at the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. It's like a car that's designed to have leprosy as a requisite.


Don't take my word for it, VW ranks 4th from the bottom in a survey of 34 other manufacturers.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/178357/n...ill-struggles/

Someone please tell me what good is carrying a lot of shit around if it can only get you somewhere between point A-B. I'd rather carry less and be able to get to point B. Das Autofail.

Precisely ! sure a VW is luxury and sort of nice and blah blah but the shit breaks more than anything ive seen! Why would you need to learn to carry bottles of oil and what not with you when you have a low mileage and or new car?
My cousins shop, we had a guy who is a buddy of my cousin come in with his 2010 vw toureg, oil light was on it just had the oil changed 1500 miles prior. checked the stick nothing. put in 2 qrtz. still nothing. put a third qrt in finally reached the bottom of the stick the car had i think 9500 miles on it?

when the bunny aka (rabbit) first came out again with its pathetic 2.5liter junker. guy i know bought one brand new. After 15,000 miles. oil was pissing out the bottom of the engine, i jacked it up the rear main seal was shot. stereo stopped working, headlights only came on when they wanted. VW just has too many downfalls for its price. not to mention you need every special tool known to man to fix them.

forgive me for any VW lovers but ive just had too much experience working on them , knowing too many people with them i mean i live in like Dubs on Defrost and H20 land. everyone in my county basically drives a slammed half destroyed vw and says "oh dude gotta listen to my dubstep and slam the car lower. wait till i get my VRT then youll have nothing to say... really? i ask how many oil pans have you destroyed. these dudes are driving with 2x4s in the trunk to go over speed bumps and to pull into their own drive ways.. Facepalm Fail.


to me VW just makes these theoretically great engines and they are totally low balled on hp and trq oh you can chip it to get xxxhp and xxx trq.. i dont care, if im spending near 30k i want it to have more than 200hp out of a 2.0 turbo stock.

SR20 made 205-220hp correct me if im wrong out of the same displacement non DI and back in the late 80s early 90s.

to me id never own a vw just too much bs for nothing special. if im driving a front engine front wheel drive im buying a 90s integra and putting some money into and yeah thats a great FF if you ask me. that or a nice Prelude. those are awesome.

cheap to fix good on gas fun as hell. and if you do infact break something owell. junkyard pick in pull new engine go at it again

sorry for my rant i just cant stand 90% of the Dbags around me that drive them and think they are the coolest thing since the toilet seat was invented.

no one can be humble anymore.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by Masato-san

"A real man attacks the corners"

-Tsuchiya Keiichi-

I don't care how much faster the mustang/genesis/speed3/velociter/GTI is. Throw them into a corner watch them burn.

The only car I would consider at this price point is a used s2000 or NSX.

yah totally i saw the Hot Version too. hit hte nail on the head. i dont care how sick your car looks a 1/4 inch off the ground or how much "poke" you have an FF still understeers and sends its weight to the rear tires whenever you open the throttle to me its a sad excuse for people who say i live in an area with snow... so do i sally, grow a pair and either drive an AWD or learn to drive like they did before 1980 with only FR and 400trq with open diff lol

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

SR20 made 205-220hp correct me if im wrong out of the same displacement non DI and back in the late 80s early 90s.

SR20, 3SGTE, 4G63, EJ series, B18C5, K20, F20, Altezza 3SGE. All made around 200-235 stock with 2L. VW talks about blown 200hp/200lbsft of torque like no one else on the planet has done that.

All the turbo Japanese engines have seen huge horsepower from simple mods as well without a "chip", done with a spring, T join, ball berring and hose clamps.

VW just makes me .

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

My honest opinion is that VW quality and workmanship sucks donkey balls.

Ever have a window fall into the door and break on a highway while it's pissing rain? My friend had in his 2009 passat.

Ever go for an oil change and a week later the low oil warning alarm comes on with a bone dry dipstick AND have the VW "mechanic" or tech say "It's common practice to carry a bottle of extra engine oil in the trunk"? My friend's 2008 GTI did.

Mind you these are stock cars and chipping them for more horsepower just makes it faster getting the car to disintegrate into oblivion. Every near new VW I've been in had some serious issue.

I stay away from VW like it's a fuckin' disease. Sure they have plush and nice interiors, it's there for when you need to relax at the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. It's like a car that's designed to have leprosy as a requisite.


Don't take my word for it, VW ranks 4th from the bottom in a survey of 34 other manufacturers.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/178357/n...ill-struggles/

Someone please tell me what good is carrying a lot of shit around if it can only get you somewhere between point A-B. I'd rather carry less and be able to get to point B. Das Autofail.

Not a VW fan. However, many turbo engines sip more oil than a conventional econobox powerplant. There's a reason most manuals say up to 1qt/1000mi can be considered "normal" oil burning.

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Not a VW fan. However, many turbo engines sip more oil than a conventional econobox powerplant. There's a reason most manuals say up to 1qt/1000mi can be considered "normal" oil burning.

I'll agree with you that an engine with a turbo attached to it will consume more oil than a conventional NA 4 banger. It's not "normal" to lose 3 quarts after a week to a week an a half's worth of driving.

My 20 year old CT26 powered 3SGTE about what is considered "normal".

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

SR20, 3SGTE, 4G63, EJ series, B18C5, K20, F20, Altezza 3SGE. All made around 200-235 stock with 2L. VW talks about blown 200hp/200lbsft of torque like no one else on the planet has done that.

All the turbo Japanese engines have seen huge horsepower from simple mods as well without a "chip", done with a spring, T join, ball berring and hose clamps.

VW just makes me .

seriously. its pathetic. like the 1.8t made 177 hp out of a 20 valve twin cam inline 4 turbo... 177? ummm my 98 200sx ser NA with bolt ons made more than that and it was older and had no turbo standard 16valve twin cam lol i used to make dog crap out of gti's lol

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

My opinion is that there's not a lot of value in the twins. It's a niche car for a very specific buyer. The WRX/GTI and cars like that have more value per dollar, but drive very differently. Ask yourselves...what do you want from the car? If value is something, you probably don't want one of the twins.

I value the fun that I have in my FR-S, so that makes it valuable to me. I must be a niche buyer.

I will give the GTI two things - It definitely has a roomier back seat and I wouldn't mind having HID's.

The WRX is getting a little too pricey for me at $5 k more than my FR-S.