Hawk HP Plus front brake pads on the track

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by mtsound

Hi I need help from the track guys here.

Here is a pic of my front brake pads after three days of HPDE track events
A total of eight 30 min sessions.
I also included a pic of my rotors DBA T3 club sport rotors.
The pads are breaking up at the edges and showing pits. There is still plenty of thickness left.
I am wondering if the pads are done and need to be replaced before my next event?

Thanks

mike

So that's what your pads look like after 4 hours on track? You should call Hawk and say thank you. Those....look...marvelous. The little bit of breaking up at the edges is a non-issue especially with how much time you've put on them.

I've spent about $2500 on brake pads alone over the last 2 racing season using 6 different compounds. I've got lots of data. Those pads don't show cracking, delamination, glazing or grooving. They look just fine. Once I've finished a race on straight metal to metal and guess what... car still stopped great. Left myself wondering why I use pads at all.

Here's pads that are in much worse shape (edge crumbling and glazing) and they still helped me finish 2nd in a race reaching temps over 1100 degrees (part of the reason for glazing). (Hawk DTC-60's)



Here's why I've chosen to not run Hawks anymore (and this is on a race car, not street car)

[rice_classic]

I forgot to add...

It's never ever a bad idea to take spares.

[mtsound]

Thanks rice classic
That's exactly what I needed to know

[twincamRob]

Originally Posted by kllrnohj

Assuming you are braking at all close to correctly (aka, hard ), your front stock pads will be completely gone by the end of the day. I would highly, highly recommend having a spare set of front pads before your track day - even if it's just a set of replacement street pads. Better than limping home on the backing plate - I made that mistake before, lol

Thanks for your input. I was lapping with fairly respectable times and had no issues with my pads. I've actually been daily driving the car everyday since the track day in late Sept. Here's my thread... http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18110

[rice_classic]

I'm here to help. Brake pads aren't just a wear item, they're a wear-fast item. Don't worry too much about how often you replace them. If you're comfortable changing pads when there's only 1mm of pad left, fine... If you're only comfortable running them half way down, that's fine too. I did a qualifying session with metal on metal and car slowed down fine, heck I set my fastest time and qualified on pole! (I did not do this on purpose, my crew person put my pads in backwards)

I love trying to new pad compounds that's why in one year I tried 5 different compounds on the race car! Learning about different pads release characteristics, bite, friction rate etc etc, is very fun. I had one set this year that had such a high friction level and poor release that I didn't have to push on the pedal hard at all to whoa the car down but if I locked up the tires the pads would stick to the rotors even when I lifted my foot off the pedal!!! Just went sliding off track in a cloud of very very expensive tire smoke!

For me it's like driving new cars or dating new women. When you find that one that just "gets the job done", you'll keep going back to it. Same applies for tires.

So yeah, don't fear buying brake pads, revel in it. Carbotech, Hawk, Cobalt, Pagid, Performance Friction, Raybestos.. etc etc etc. Most track day folks don't want to have a dedicated set of rotors/pads for the track so if the pads must do double duty keep that in mind.

You might say, "I wish this pad worked better on the track" but realize that if it did it will most likely not perform as well on the street, either in functionality or rotor life. So always take into consideration the "compromise".

[BlaineWasHere]

I used HP+ Pads on my big heavy MKV GTI at two track days with success.

Look closely...

[CSG Mike]

While we're at it, another example of a glazed pad (from my s2000). See the pad on the right. The left pad is on the verge of glazing as well.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I'm here to help. Brake pads aren't just a wear item, they're a wear-fast item. Don't worry too much about how often you replace them. If you're comfortable changing pads when there's only 1mm of pad left, fine... If you're only comfortable running them half way down, that's fine too. I did a qualifying session with metal on metal and car slowed down fine, heck I set my fastest time and qualified on pole! (I did not do this on purpose, my crew person put my pads in backwards)

Lol we raced for four HOURS at Sebring with one hawk blue backwards, stopped fine, just some pull to one direction.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Look closely...

[img]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/4229_652552422775_2745503_n.jpg[/img ]

Hehe, I've seen them spark quite a few times. Kind of annoying pad for the street though; I've had better braking with different pads. Not a fan of the HP+.

[rice_classic]

Benefits of FWD = Bedding your brakes in the air!




FWIW, I don't actually do this any more as I almost burned down my garage and my house when my brakes burst in to flames. Terrific learning experience though!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Benefits of FWD = Bedding your brakes in the air!




FWIW, I don't actually do this any more as I almost burned down my garage and my house when my brakes burst in to flames. Terrific learning experience though!

That's what a driveway is for

[ultra]

Oh joy...folks trashing on the HP+ pads just two days after I put mine on

Seriously though, the pads in the original pic look just fine. Plenty of meat left and the glazing/chunking looks pretty minor. Pretty even wear too. Oddly the rotors look pretty clean, as if there's not much pad material transfer happening, but they don't seem badly scorched or grooved or anything.

The HP+ pads on my car seem to be quite similar to Ferodo DS 2500s or similar type street/track pads. Very grabby, lots of noise, lots of dust. They lose a bit of the initial bite after reaching a certain temperature threshold and level out after that. I doubt that any similar dual purpose pads out there from any brand will behave much differently in general. At least I haven't found any that don't squeal and dust on the street while lasting forever on track.

It's just the nature of the beast it seems. Either you accept the pros and cons of dual purpose pads it or you go for swapping between separate street and track pads which would be better suited to each application but more of a PITA.

I do wish there were more pads out for our cars though as well as more people selling them.

Also thinking that a good ducting kit might help (TRD kit looks interesting) but even then there's only so much that you can do on very short or tight tracks which don't allow the brakes to cool.

Most important thing is that they get you stopped adequately and reliably.

[rice_classic]

No trashing here. I was planning on buy some myself.

I just wasn't planning on racing on the DTC-60's anymore.

[FRSpdDmn]

The pads in the OP look fine. A bit of crumbling at the edges is no big deal. The slotted rotors will contribute to that. Just make sure your fluid is fresh and properly bled.

I deal Hawks and can get you guys good prices if you want to get anything from me (email amagagnoli@gmail.com). That said, not every Hawk pad is a good one for everyone's situation. There are also other good pads out there.

I feel that the HP+ would be a good option for most people running on stock type street tires. If running a Star Spec / RS3 type of tire, an HT-10 or DTC-60 would be more prudent (I would recommend the DTC's). If running r-comp tires, I would also add brake cooling to that setup if running for more than 20 minute sessions and of course for racing.