Innovate Motorsports Twin Screw Supercharger Kit for FR-S/BRZ

[Draco-REX]

I would like to see a shop get a hold of one of these and see what its max output is. I don't expect 500hp, but I'd like see what it can do. I really want to see what the torque curve looks like.

My big worry is the strength of the rest of the drivetrain. The high power turbo builds are bringing the boost in late to ease the strain on the driveline. This will deliver power down low.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

I would like to see a shop get a hold of one of these and see what its max output is. I don't expect 500hp, but I'd like see what it can do. I really want to see what the torque curve looks like.

My big worry is the strength of the rest of the drivetrain. The high power turbo builds are bringing the boost in late to ease the strain on the driveline. This will deliver power down low.

This size of a twin screw positive displacement supercharger is not ideal for high boost and big horsepower numbers. You will get bigger numbers on any other type of FI kit as they are all more efficient than this type of FI.

And the turbo kits are not "bringing the boost in late to ease the strain on the driveline" on purpose. It is just the nature of a turbo. A certain amount of exhaust energy is needed to generate boost. On the kits you are talking about this point is not reached till X rpm.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This size of a twin screw positive displacement supercharger is not ideal for high boost and big horsepower numbers. You will get bigger numbers on any other type of FI kit as they are all more efficient than this type of FI.

this is true. high boost can be attained but with terrible efficiency. Eatons TVS would be over 70% efficient to about 12psi. therefore its pretty comparable to turbos and centrifugals. above that a centrifugal or turbo is going to be better but with less area under the curve and less transient response (respectively)

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

this is true. high boost can be attained but with terrible efficiency. Eatons TVS would be over 70% efficient to about 12psi. therefore its pretty comparable to turbos and centrifugals. above that a centrifugal or turbo is going to be better but with less area under the curve and less transient response (respectively)

Well more accurately, low end boost from a turbo is extremely inefficient, but high end boost with a high A/R housing is quite a bit more efficient than any supercharger by virtue.

The problem with Roots superchargers is that their efficiency is somewhat speed dependent, and while you can hit 70% efficiency at higher boost levels sometimes, most of the time you can't. The TVS units seem happiest at the 0.6-0.7 bar boost level, rather modest. Centrifugal SC is also quite speed dependent but it's easy to land most of the operating zone into the high efficiency "islands" because boost goes up with speed.

Also worth mentioning is that positive displacement blowers are a bit bigger and heavier.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well more accurately, low end boost from a turbo is extremely inefficient, but high end boost with a high A/R housing is quite a bit more efficient than any supercharger by virtue.

The problem with Roots superchargers is that their efficiency is somewhat speed dependent, and while you can hit 70% efficiency at higher boost levels sometimes, most of the time you can't. The TVS units seem happiest at the 0.6-0.7 bar boost level, rather modest. Centrifugal SC is also quite speed dependent but it's easy to land most of the operating zone into the high efficiency "islands" because boost goes up with speed.

Also worth mentioning is that positive displacement blowers are a bit bigger and heavier.

i would say the 70% margin goes up to 2.4 PR or about 1.4bar. highest efficiency for 3500-7400 RPM at .9 bar is ~74% using the performance map for the next generation prototype R1100. .9 bar 1500-3500 is above 68-72% as well. 1.2BAR would be 68% 3500-4500, 4500+ is still in the 70% range. huge advance over the current generation.

as for being heavier that is true, but with the tubing, BOV, Intercooler, and charger weight differences should be relatively small.

the maximum efficiency of 76% is reached at 6900rpm @ .9bar

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

i would say the 70% margin goes up to 2.4 PR or about 1.4bar. highest efficiency for 3500-7400 RPM at .9 bar is ~74% using the performance map for the next generation prototype R1100. .9 bar 1500-3500 is above 68-72% as well. 1.2BAR would be 68% 3500-4500, 4500+ is still in the 70% range. huge advance over the current generation.

Where did you get R1100 information? Just curious.

It'll be interesting to see how Eaton's TVS line develops and how much adoption it sees, that's for sure.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Where did you get R1100 information? Just curious.

It'll be interesting to see how Eaton's TVS line develops and how much adoption it sees, that's for sure.

Got it from a brochure they sent me called "downsizing" (i get these just to stay up to date.) the map looks pretty much like the current R1320, but a little less flow and a much bigger plateau that registers as 74%. starts at .5Bar-.8Bar 250CFM and stops at 650CFM .5BAR through 1.0bar. the widest section ~450CFM (if my calcs are correct gives ~6200RPM in our motor) goes to 1.2BAR at the upper limit. 76% is attained about ~6800-7400 at .9bar (520-550CFM)

I also Emailed eaton about dimensions of the prototype and whether i would be able to test it. (hopefully it will fit on Innovates manifold.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This size of a twin screw positive displacement supercharger is not ideal for high boost and big horsepower numbers. You will get bigger numbers on any other type of FI kit as they are all more efficient than this type of FI.

I'm more interested in the area under the torque curve. This should give a much fatter curve than a turbo. Great for AutoX and slow tracks.

And the turbo kits are not "bringing the boost in late to ease the strain on the driveline" on purpose. It is just the nature of a turbo. A certain amount of exhaust energy is needed to generate boost. On the kits you are talking about this point is not reached till X rpm.

It was specificly stated by Visconti in one of the Accelerated performance threads that they were not bringing the boost up as quickly as they could in order to limit stress on the transmission as much as possible. Doing the same with this supercharger would negate its main benefit, so the transmission will have to put up with a lot of low-end torque.

[Draco-REX]

One of the drag racing guys on another forum managed to ID the core:
http://www.sprintex.com.au/sprintex/superchargers/

looks like the S5-210.

[TouchMyHonda]

Man this thread Is entirely updated by board members and not innovative.... Whats up with that guys?

[ABQautoxer]

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

Man this thread Is entirely updated by board members and not innovative.... Whats up with that guys?

I'd cut them some slack until at least a week or so after SEMA. Not a whole lot of vendors posting right now due to it.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

One of the drag racing guys on another forum managed to ID the core:
http://www.sprintex.com.au/sprintex/superchargers/

looks like the S5-210.

Did I not say days ago that its just a powdercoated sprintex kit?

[track_warrior]

Im exited, this is the edge that would let me take the gt-3's at the track. I own them in the corner entry and exit but get eaten in the straightaway.

[RYU]

I hope someone post pics of the Laminova setup. From this angle you can't see much by way of an aftercooler.