Anybody here getting that greasy "$27k" feeling?

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

Who made up that quote? The motor and transmission don't retard power output when you turn the steering wheel. Check out physics defying cars like the Nissan GTR. It's fast everywhere and weighs almost 2 tons.

Add power, go faster; remove weight; go faster. Period.

The first time I drove my Talon over to Buttonwillow I was pretty damn close to stock and my best time was in the 2:40s. I didn't get back over there for 2 years, at that time I was pushing over 300awhp (almost double factory) and I averaged 35 seconds faster than my previous best time. The car weighed the same (give or take) and had the original suspension. Since then I've cut a lot of the fat and almost doubled the power output again. And the suspension is pretty badass too.

My' 92 Talon AWD with me in it was 3420 (3200w/o me)

When I put it on a diet I removed...

Front/Rear bumper: 70#s
AC & internal AC/Heat assembly: 60#s
Rear Seats: 30#s
Front Seats + 1 Bride Reps: 72#s
Seatbelts/assemblies: 50#s
Spare/Jack/Tools: 37#s
Spare tire cover/privacy cover: 20#s
Floormats: 6#s
Lightweight battery: 26#s
Charcoal underhood canister: 3#s
Carpeting: 15#s
Sound deadening: 25#s
CruiseCtrl Switch: 2#s
Sound system: 15#s
Headlight motors: 17#s
Metal dash pieces, glove compartment, misc shit: >50#s
Balance shaft: 6#s
Konig over stock wheels: 40#s

...for a grand total of ~550#s, now it weighs 2660-2680#s and with my fat ass in it 2880#s.

The only out of pocket expense (for the weight loss) was the Bride seat, battery and wheels. Sure, I lost creature comforts, but that's what my RX and Tundra are for.

Also added Tokico blue's with springs, RM racing f/r sway bars, GSX lower control arms, front upper strutbar, Powerslot rotors, Porterfield R4S pads, and Dunlop direzza Z1 star specs.

Every single weight saving or power adding change made to my car made it faster in both straight and curvy lines.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Driftster

OOOOO ok...i see it now..I was curious what happened..you went from completely rational to "omg 3200lbs IS PURE FAT" Thought i lost you there..

I just don't see this happening in the FT, especially for under 3k in mods..

That is tune, turbo, exhaust and intake.. 740cc injectors and a fmic

357hp...woo

Definitely a sweet car, but I would say closer to $5500 in parts for 360rwhp. The nicest GT30R kit I've seen is by Exceladyne. It comes with a GT3076R, exhaust manifold adapter, 38mm Tial WG, v-band downpipe, intake tube&filter, oil&water lines, and Power Axel reflash module. That kit alone is $3200. Add another $800 for a catback back exhaust as nice as the one in the video, $900 for a FMIC, and $400 for Deatchwerks 750cc injectors. Looking at $5300. Still a damn good deal IMO.

$23,000 + $5,300 = $28,300 and 360rwhp. Almost the same price as a 3.8 Rspec and infinitely cooler.

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Who made up that quote?

Colin Chapman

Originally Posted by Driftster

You know what made my car fater in the corners and added weight? new brakes new tires and a new differential...

That quote sucks

[Exage]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

The ease or difficulty of getting more out of your motor seems to be a non-factor.

I was hoping for something decent out of the box, not locked or watered down for tuning potential. Here's why:

It becomes a non factor when you have no money or time to spend on modifying and tuning your DD. Or perhaps someone would like to keep that 10 year 100,000mile power-train warranty (it's a nice thing to have right!)

Tuning was never huge where I reside: service, parts, vehicles, insurance, and gas are all very expensive compared to most of North America.

The Genesis Coupe has been a colossal flop where I reside. The 2.0T has been severely outsold by the Si, GTI, MS3 and the 3.8 has been slaughtered by the Mustang and Camaro V6 (I can't even recall the last time I have seen a 3.8 in the wild here).

[serialk11r]

Driftster it's nice that you're passionate but maybe you could chill a little lol.

[SUB-FT86]

Drifter most of these guys will never care about the GC so I wouldn't waste my time. Couple of years ago I used to be like these guys when I was like 19. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Hyundai!!! But then Hyundai went and created a car(GC) that I wish Honda/Toyota had made for around the same price(22k-33k) I anticipated they would sell it for if they made it. Now because of the GC I have more respect for Hyundai for going the extra mile rather than building a Celica GTS/Honda Type R-like car for between 22k-32k. Now with the GC platform, Hyundai can spawn more RWD vehicles in the process as they already have 3 of them. How much Honda has right now?? 0

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Driftster

How many shows has this car made it to? How many shows has toyota or subaru had a booth with the engine or the chassis...How many full stage releases has this car had in tuner version stock version prototype version etc etc etc... How many columns in magazines has it already gotten POSITIVE reviews for.... Every single magazine that is praising the car without any evidence what so ever is getting coin from toyota. This car has been "on the road" for years now.. Hell toyota had Polyphony digital do a nice ad campaign for their car via Gran Turismo back in 2009...

So these car shows were only for Toyota to show off the FT86? I wasn't aware of that? And Toyota is paying for magazine articles too? Wow.

Originally Posted by Driftster

OH Em Gee You don't say overlap is handled by cams....But guess what? a High flowing head is going to be harder to source considering it has to be outsourced...When you turbocharge an engine you don't have to worry about the flawlessness of the head ports and ability to move CFM under it's own power, that's the entire point of a turbocharger, this is why 2 valve engines can respond so well to turbo chargers because even though the single large valve doesn't allow as much air into the cylinder as 2 smaller valves with more surface area...the pressure the turbo builds compensates for it......That's why the N/A oriented high flow head is completely unnecessary in a turbo application especially in a stock application where adding the machined head would only result in higher cost for the car to be produced..

Efficiency is efficiency. A higher flowing head on a turbo car will benefit it. As will the cams in the top end at a bit of lag expense, proven countless times on Supra turbos that have NA cams swapped.

Also 'machined' head? Outsourced? FE vs GE in the 4A and 3S. Yamaha made recommendations on specs, port shape and what-not, but they wer made in the same facilities, just with different casting plugs and cores. No more machined that the ordinary ones. It's not like the performance version is CNC ported in a special factory or anything...

Originally Posted by Driftster

Also the GE and GTE heads are different...

Just checking on your knowledge base, as you were suggesting that the head itself (and not the cams in it) was responsible for overlap. 2JZGE use round exhaust ports and GTEs use oval.

Originally Posted by Driftster

How is porsche a bad example, i'm assuming you aren't aware of the changes that took place in the model lineup..

Considering porsche is working with a new base engine, an entire new valve train...The axle's are being relocated, the greenhouse is growing and they're using different materials for the composition...

In the world of the 911, making the car more MR like less RR like is revolutionary..Not Evolutionary..

Porsche designs and plans their models far into the future, and have been working on the 911 family for half a century. The FT86 has nothing current to get data off of.

Originally Posted by Driftster

EVENTUALLY yes, eventually it will be spread out...As it stands now..There is a SINGLE car covering that order...

In the development of the motor and future models they planned for this. This is how costing of products works, basing it on expected future sales.

Originally Posted by Driftster

Except the MSRP of the S2000 wasn't much lower than dealer markups there man.. the S2000 MSRP'd for almost 40 grand, with shopping around it could be found for that...But most people didn't shop around..

Not clear on what I meant. Honda itself priced it to be their halo model, but didn't really have to. However their were some extra limitations on the potential sales volume of the S2000 do maybe they did. Convertible-only, 2-seater, and manual-only would cut into sales numbers even if it were cheaper, so they did need an extra bit of profit factored into the price. FT86 doesn't have these handicaps.

Originally Posted by Driftster

Ok so now you're going on the limb as to say the "stripper" model FT86 is going to be as great as it needs to be, there is no need for any OEM performance parts what so ever because this car is as good as it gets..However elsewhere in reality...Every single other car has a "step up" that is deemed "necessary"....I like how that works.

Um, what? Of course I expect it to be good. But I'm not expecting to go Cayman or 370Z hunting at the track, right off the lot. It will handle well, have decent acceleration and decent economy, it will be fine until the warranty ends. Then we will see. If you are expecting the factory or dealer to be the one that has to 'upgrade' your car for you, enjoy overpaying for your performance. If you 'need' your FT86 to out-drag bolt-on Genesis Coupes, you're probably SOL. Plus Scion doesn't seem to do the 'step up' thing. Just the silly cosmetic Release thing.

Exception to the above for me is price. If Toyota over-prices this car, I will be going for an MR-S with a hard top and 2ZZGE/6spd swap.

Originally Posted by Driftster

2500#'s and 170hp/140tq is a gift from god?

Man i had no idea you guys loved the Celica GT-S that much..because that's exactly where it sits, and that vehicle was abysmal..


You seem to be missing the focus of the Genesis 2.0T...As mentioned it's designed to be a platform to tune on, it's dirt cheap and you get a proven strong powerplant and a turbocharged engine in a RWD car...It was created with room to grow, meanwhile you don't see many 2.5RS's out there N/A ready to kick ass and take names..

And you're STILL assuming it's going to weight 2500lbs..

Just wait and see. If this thing is cheap and light enough, and EJ motors can swap in with the same degree of difficulty as a K-series into the older Civics, there will be some ridiculous performance numbers coming out of the FT86 that the Genesis will likely not be able to match for a long time.

This is why you guys are still here, right? Despite us silly fanbois, your general distaste for the thinking behind this car, and your love for easy power upgrades, your still unsure of what to expect from the final FT86. There is still the potential that this car hits 2600lbs and you could bolt in an EJ257 like Lego that can easily be tuned to 300whp. Or a Scion company like PTuning makes a bolt on turbo kit for $5k for 250whp. Or countless other scenarios that annihilate stock Zs and upgraded GCs.

Sounds like what you guys want is that this car is a Miata-type car that can't be upgraded, so you can laugh at us delusional fanbois, blissfully ignorant to your horsepower in our corners, as you blast by on the straights in your more powerful cars. But that only works if the FT86 isn't easily upgradeable. Don't count on it.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Exage

I was hoping for something decent out of the box, not locked or watered down for tuning potential. Here's why:

It becomes a non factor when you have no money or time to spend on modifying and tuning your DD. Or perhaps someone would like to keep that 10 year 100,000mile power-train warranty (it's a nice thing to have right!)

Tuning was never huge where I reside: service, parts, vehicles, insurance, and gas are all very expensive compared to most of North America.

The Genesis Coupe has been a colossal flop where I reside. The 2.0T has been severely outsold by the Si, GTI, MS3 and the 3.8 has been slaughtered by the Mustang and Camaro V6 (I can't even recall the last time I have seen a 3.8 in the wild here).

You out in BC, too, Exage?

[Exage]

Originally Posted by Driftster

Well judging by the buyer market.... If everyone is buying ms3s si's and gti's.... Your area is a bunch of wouldbe car people.hipsters who buy cars based on "i know a guy" stories..

I didn't realize that you have to tune the engine or else you're not a car person. This renders myself and quite a few members not car people.

The si is a shamble of a performance honda, the gti is a fat dork of a car with a pigs handling, and the ms3 is pretty problematic and handles pretty lofty in terms of feel...

I would love to see a 2.0T vs. FWD (toss in a Miata as well) magazine comparison. I might write C&D on this one, thanks.

I bet your area will be flooded with this ft86 as they buy the " in thing" instead of actually car shop

So now you've called us all hipsters , unless we perform a EJ257 swap...

Originally Posted by Driftster

... and i just like arguing..

And on that bombshell I join Matador [ON/OFF] Ignore

[Matador]

Originally Posted by madfast

here is the pic of the supposed bilstein shock.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=324

Quite possible that they may be Sachs rather than Bilsteins.

Originally Posted by Exage

A Genesis Coupe 2.0T does not manage a mid 6.

It will put down between 6.8 and 7.2 depending on the options and spec.

MT tested 6.8s: Track Model

C&D tested 6.8s: R-Spec Model

C&D tested 7.0s: Base Model

R&T tested 7.2s

I personally wouldn't call it a stupid car, but it is far from fantastic in stock form. The 2 liter turbo and RWD sounded extremely tempting until I found out about it's obesity problem (: The "lightest" curb weight is 3294lbs).

Actually I believe the R specs come in at 3224lbs or thereabouts, 70lbs lighter than the "lightest" spec. I've heard, no way to confirm.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Actually I believe the R specs come in at 3224lbs or thereabouts, 70lbs lighter than the "lightest" spec. I've heard, no way to confirm.

Perhaps. 3294lbs was the lightest curb weight I obtained from a trip to the Hyundai USA site...

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Dimman

This is why you guys are still here, right? Despite us silly fanbois, your general distaste for the thinking behind this car, and your love for easy power upgrades, we're still unsure of what to expect from the final FT86. There is still the potential that this car hits 2600lbs and you could bolt in an EJ257 like Lego that can easily be tuned to 300whp. Or a Scion company like PTuning makes a bolt on turbo kit for $5k for 250whp. Or countless other scenarios that annihilate stock Zs and upgraded GCs.

Sounds like what you guys want is that this car is a Miata-type car that can't be upgraded, so you can laugh at us delusional fanbois, blissfully ignorant to your horsepower in our corners, as you blast by on the straights in your more powerful cars. But that only works if the FT86 isn't easily upgradeable. Don't count on it.

I'm still here because we still don't know what to expect from the production FR-S. Assuming it stays under 2700#s, the sole redeeming quality about the car will be having a motor that is easily swapped out for an ej257. I'll pass on the NA to FI turbo kits.

I want the car to be a success, because it would give the Supra a platform to build on.

[KevinDuMa]

Not much new information here but I thought it was interesting that they posted specs. While I was at the store I took a look in Car & Driver, Road & Track, and Motortrend and all of them had the Fr-S in the 2012 car section all of them with relatively the same info except Car & Driver said this car would be around 28 grand which is total bs in my opinion. Just excited this car is somewhat making progress and actually put on lists of cars to buy for 2012. Anyway I took a picture of the Motortrend excerpt, enjoy.



I'm also kind of disappointed with what they put as the tq but I guess we'll have to wait for real specs from Toyota.

[Spaceywilly]

Interesting that they call it a four-passenger coupe. That's the first mention I've seen of rear seats. Those are going to be some tiny seats.