Anybody here getting that greasy "$27k" feeling?

[madfast]

here is the pic of the supposed bilstein shock.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=324

[SUB-FT86]

I would never choose a mx5 over the cars listed especially the Z and GC R-Spec 3.8. I don't care for the muscle cars or the miata. I hate its feminine, canoe-like looks and the engine looks like it has the same output of my rsx sans about 250 lbs.

[madfast]

i'd personally want something like this over any Z or GC...

[SUB-FT86]

Other than the great handling and lightness the MX5 provides what is the big deal with it? If I'm going to spend that kind of money I want more style,power,torque, and a little practicality even if it means more weight. I don't see how it can be seen as a steal of a car.

[serialk11r]

Still looks like a canoe with a cartoon smiley face. IMO the biggest problem with the car.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Other than the great handling and lightness...

Yup.
And it's a convertible. The RX-8 starts around $26k and besides being faster than the Miata, it has back seats, but it gets worse MPG than a v8. The new ones should be more reliable with it reaching the end of it's lifecycle but I digress.

If the Scion FR-S starts under $20k with it's compact backseats and 200PS. It'll be the only car in the price bracket with RWD and 200PS. And it's being touted as a fun beginner's driving car.

How many cars can you buy new with $20k that have almost 200BHP?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Still looks like a canoe with a cartoon smiley face. IMO the biggest problem with the car.

I thought I was the only one with good eyes. It also looks like a hot dog with a smiley face and a drop top.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Yup.
And it's a convertible. The RX-8 starts around $26k and besides being faster than the Miata, it has back seats, but it gets worse MPG than a v8. The new ones should be more reliable with it reaching the end of it's lifecycle but I digress.

If the Scion FR-S starts under $20k with it's compact backseats and 200PS. It'll be the only car in the price bracket with RWD and 200PS. And it's being touted as a fun beginner's driving car.

How many cars can you buy new with $20k that have almost 200BHP?

I would take a FR-S over the Miata any day of the week mainly because of styling and the fact that the FR-S will have Cayman level handling.

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Other than the great handling and lightness the MX5 provides what is the big deal with it? If I'm going to spend that kind of money I want more style,power,torque, and a little practicality even if it means more weight. I don't see how it can be seen as a steal of a car.

Style is kinda subjective, so I'll leave that alone. More power I'll give you, Miata sits pretty nice at ~200whp, but I don't feel it's entirely necessary in such a small car. Practicality? What an ugly word. That's what other cars are for.

One of the best selling points for the Miata aside form what's already been mentioned is its low consumable cost. Sticky tires and brake pads are much cheaper and really accentuate the Miata's best qualities.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Driftster

Where do you come up with this stuff?


Because somehow being a roadster will deter people? Meanwhile FR86 + sunroof = closest you'll get to Roadster miata..

Except you won't WANT the sport 370z as it's a inflated MSRP for a combination of modifications that would otherwise be replaced.... The sports brakes experience fade at nearly the same rate and hawk pads on 12.6 rotors will outperform nissan pads on the 13"s, the ADVAN tires are just as competent to most owners as the potenza's both of which are consumables anyway....I've yet to meet a Nissan owner that says their syncro-rev features accounted for anything on the track on in the street.. Granted the VSC is a nice addition, it's rather low on the lock ratio, for notable improvement you'd be hard pressed NOT to add clutches to the thing which will end up costing as much if not more than a dedicated unit.

These upgraded consumables do not constitue the 3,000 price shift.

I would personally rather have the 5 speed Mx5 as the rowing of the 6 speed box is a huge let down for me in a well buttoned up car. Not just tha t, there's the weight gain over the 6th speed...And the O/D ratio's really don't show more than a 500rpm difference...At 65-70 highway speeds that's maybe a 3-4mpg diff, which isn't anything to care about in a car that only costs 30 dollars to fill.

You say it' stupid, i say it's a fantastic car...

a Mid 6 0-60 puts it nearly a second faster than the mx5 in a sprint despite it's size, it's making 210HP which is only "10" hp more than the FT is projected to make, however it's also making 223Ftlbs from 2000rpm...

The things on just as strong a engine platform, and coming stock with brembo's a LSD for sub 25k and probably a fair bit more interior room/luggage space...


I'm all for debating cost and what not, but please use some reason behind the decisions..

Don't throw a certain trim level into the mix simply to prove a point without having any reasonable grounds for inclusion...

I mean really, neglecting the 2.0T all together was unnecessary, and generally...You don't buy a roadster if you don't WANT a roadster....The Retractable hard top on the miata doesn't turn the car into a non-convertible..It's still a drop top..Buying the retractable hard top option is purely subjective as there's no solidified reason to spend that extra money outside of bling.....It increases weight, it raises center of gravity, and it doesn't increase chassis rigidity with the top up

You haven't been around long eh? Toyota benchmarked the cayman's handling. Go look it up.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Driftster

So at a press conference, they said they're shooting for the cayman....Now months later....
"this car handles as good as the cayman"

Seriously you make infomercial sales men millionaires..

This is what toyota said about the LFA

" whose achievement has been to push the boundaries of technologie"
" The LFA is a thoroughbred supercar, a machine engineered to achieve a single goal – to deliver a supreme driving experience"
" Over the past decade we have pushed every boundary in pursuit of this goal and I believe we have created the most driver-orientated car we possibly could"

Last time i checked, being out braked by standard steel rotors, having the slowest shifting automatic transmission in the supercar world, a 0-60 time that rivals..a 70,000 dollar Chevrolet and god knows how many other much much muuuch cheaper cars, is in no way an example of "pushing the boundaries of technology" and the inclusion of launch control, steering assist and all of the driving aids that take you from the drivers seat and put you into the lazyboy infront of your xbox are not personifications of "Supreme driving experience"

Toyota has some of the highest paid PR people in the automotive industry and have been caught in more than one lie in which brash exaggeration was done to favor their car....

Much like their Matrix being a thrilling car with attitude and will leave its competition in the dust.......

Summary: Just because Toyota says "our car is going to be amazing it'll handle as good as this fifty thousand dollar car.....just trust us"...Does not mean it will...

Much like Mini saying it would beat a porsche..

I understand where you're coming from but they seem like they might be really close.

[sfwg]

i say it is gonna be around the price of a base gc. gc has tq, ft-86 has less weight and they are bout even the rest of the way is my guess.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Driftster

If this car handled like a cayman...i'd sell a couple of my cars and buy it cash outright on it's debut...honestly..But i'm just not seeing it.

IF this car holds up to everything promised so far, i will own one...without question without hesitation and without regret..

but there is waaay to much of this "and then it'll shoot lasers...and and...it'll weigh 100lbs..and...it's battery will never die cause it runs off of air...and and...it's doors don't open they teleport you into the car" promises.

I agree with you but we'll have to wait and see.

[Dimman]

$2k over a tC. MAX!

What are the cost differences between a FWD transaxle and a RWD transmission, drive-shaft and rear diff? About $2k to the manufacturer?

tC shares parts with the Camry, the FT86 with the Subaru version plus, likely the future WRX/STI ,and maybe some Legacy/Impreza bits. It is NOT low volume. It will only be low-volume if they over-price it.

If they are serious about re-invigorating the performance image, there should be no 'fanboi' or 'racer' tax on this car. Manufacturing-wise there is no reason for it to be expensive.

And don't justify extra cost in development, just because we see vids of it on the 'Ring. The Camry probably goes through even MORE extensive testing to make sure it is a silent, economical, marshmallow...