Anybody here getting that greasy "$27k" feeling?

[RRnold]

You guys are thinking way too much! Remember, this is going to be a Scion, known for it's low prices for the entry level enthusiast.

They are not going to offer any "versions" and the interior is going to look basic and bland just like a Ford or Chevy rental car. You guys are trippin if you think sticker is going to be 25K+.

You should have the mentality of knowing you can take it to the track, beat it up, roll it and not really care b/c the car is so fun to drive yet so cheap... and is built for a roll cage!

Crashing an EVO might hurt a bit more! That's a pretty nice little AIM dash he has there too!

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[NickDude84]

this is going to be really a hard sell at 27k look at the competition at that price range. camaro ss, mustang gt, chalenger r/t, genesis coupe 3.8, mazda rx8, nissan 370z.

with a car that is going to have around 170-200 hp it will be a hard sell for lets say someone like me in the market looking for a good 2 door coupe >30k. i mean even the mustang, camaro, and challenger base car have 300hp(base cars for those three start at 20k). the look of this car is amazing i hope this is not one of those what could have been, in Japan awesome in USA crap(mr2).

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

this is going to be really a hard sell at 27k look at the competition at that price range. camaro ss, mustang gt, chalenger r/t, genesis coupe 3.8, mazda rx8, nissan 370z.

All of those cars are over 3000 pounds, some well over that mark. Most of those you mentioned will run $30k+ as well. I may be wrong, but I don't think we'll have a lot of folks cross-shopping those cars if they're interested in what the FT-86 is promising.

I'd be comparing it with nimble lightweights under $30k like the Mini Cooper S, MX-5, Veloster Turbo, etc.

[KevinDuMa]

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes

All of those cars are over 3000 pounds, some well over that mark. Most of those you mentioned will run $30k+ as well. I may be wrong, but I don't think we'll have a lot of folks cross-shopping those cars if they're interested in what the FT-86 is promising.

I'd be comparing it with nimble lightweights under $30k like the Mini Cooper S, MX-5, Veloster Turbo, etc.

You're correct, but I think he meant if this car comes out to be around 27k when released Scion would be losing everyone's interest as they would consider one of those vehicles that are just a couple of grand more.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by Driftster

and after a glance over at the chevy site, honestly if it wasn't so embarrassing to drive a v6 camaro it's hard to beat that 300HP v6 power plant at a 22,000 price tag.

I've been fighting that same urge as well as the mustang v6.

I just can't do it though... SS or better... GT or better or nothing at all.

[NickDude84]

well here is my dilemma i used to drive a 98 camaro and i loved it, but i got married bought a house and could not afford the gas mileage of the car. so i took over my wifes car 06 scion tc and we bought a 07 accord lx coupe.

great now we are saving on gas and the tc drives nice but it just does not have the power of my camaro. now it looks like i will be able to buy a new car next year so those were the cars i was looking at. challenger, camaro, genesis coupe 3.8, mustang, new tc, and frs.

i want an exciting car two doors that wont break the bank in the 25-30k range. this car looks awesome and i have been following it since the first concept car. i hope this isnt a flop but i do not want to get into a 27k car with only 170hp for that i would buy the new tc with 180hp six speed for 20k.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

well here is my dilemma i used to drive a 98 camaro and i loved it, but i got married bought a house and could not afford the gas mileage of the car. so i took over my wifes car 06 scion tc and we bought a 07 accord lx coupe.

great now we are saving on gas and the tc drives nice but it just does not have the power of my camaro. now it looks like i will be able to buy a new car next year so those were the cars i was looking at. challenger, camaro, genesis coupe 3.8, mustang, new tc, and frs.

i want an exciting car two doors that wont break the bank in the 25-30k range. this car looks awesome and i have been following it since the first concept car. i hope this isnt a flop but i do not want to get into a 27k car with only 170hp for that i would buy the new tc with 180hp six speed for 20k.

I wouldn't expect much more power than the tC, it's tough to get the same bsng for the buck that the american cars provide. Maybe consider a used Z? Great power, handling, and reliability for under $30K.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt

I wouldn't expect much more power than the tC, it's tough to get the same bsng for the buck that the american cars provide. Maybe consider a used Z? Great power, handling, and reliability for under $30K.

+1 I'll sell ya a 2008 for the low low price of $23000.

[NickDude84]

i want a new car i have never had a new car and i am at a point in my life where i can afford a new car for that i would buy a used gto or something like that. i am just going to be patient i really do not think toyota is going to price it out of the market it just depends on the market they are after.

if they are going up against the genesis coupe than it will be from 22-30k. which is what all of us expect i just hope that they can get some power out of that engine without the use of turbos(thats a big mistake). i mean if the base is a na for 22k and the bad ass turbo 300hp beast is 30k i think all of us will be good with that. but if it comes out 27k na with an engine barley making more power than the genesis 2.0t it will flop

[Spaceywilly]

This car is (hopefully) much smaller and lighter than the GC. It is not really meant to compete with it. If all you care about is HP/$, get a muscle car. That is why they exist. The FT86 is about handling, not hp. Think Mini Cooper S or Miata, not Mustang, Camaro, Z, etc.

[NickDude84]

that is such a cop out and excuses for toyota not using the turbo version out of the wrx its all about hp. that is great that it will be able to take a corner well but you are kidding yourself if you think this is not going to compete with the GC. and mini is coming out with a coupe that should compete with it as well. i really hope that the na engine is as good as they are making it seem. i would be happy if it makes 250hp

[Neutral_Eyes]

I think he's just disappointed with the FT-86's projected power figures without taking into acount (or ignoring) the weight and/or its driving dynamics. My Miata has only 115whp, but it's still a lot more fun, and IMO rewarding to drive, than a new Mustang V6. While it certainly isn't as fast, it definitely feels that way. It's difficult to put a number or figure to. This car doesn't need oodles of power to be relevant or competitive at a $27k price point.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

that is such a cop out and excuses for toyota not using the turbo version out of the wrx its all about hp. that is great that it will be able to take a corner well but you are kidding yourself if you think this is not going to compete with the GC. and mini is coming out with a coupe that should compete with it as well. i really hope that the na engine is as good as they are making it seem. i would be happy if it makes 250hp

i love turbos as much as the next guy, but a properly tuned NA engine just FEELS better than a turbo. you just physically cannot get the flat tq curve of a NA engine with a turbo. SC? yes i'd love to see a factory SC kit. Turbo? no, its not that kinda car...

the GC is a competitor on paper, but look at both of them next to each other and it becomes less of a competitor. the FT is more than a foot shorter, and hundreds of pounds lighter. the FT is in miata and mini territory. but the mini is FWD and the miata is vert only. so right off the bat the FT appeals more to me than either of those 2... and i suppose it will to others as well...

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes

I think he's just disappointed with the FT-86's projected power figures without taking into acount (or ignoring) the weight and/or its driving dynamics. My Miata has only 115whp, but it's still a lot more fun, and IMO rewarding to drive, than a new Mustang V6. While it certainly isn't as fast, it definitely feels that way. It's difficult to put a number or figure to. This car doesn't need oodles of power to be relevant or competitive at a $27k price point.

Driving dynamics are certainly more fun on twisty roads than gobs of power that you can't fully utilize. Bragging about HP figures is mostly for people who enjoy drag racing. But for most of the other forms of performance driving that don't involve going in a straight line, people forget about all the secondary stresses that come with more power. A high horsepower car is generally heavier (unless you have the kind of money for a carbon fiber super car, but if that's the case, why look at the FR-S at all?) due to bigger engines and all the other stuff that comes with it to up the power- turbos, superchargers, bigger radiators. These all add weight. And the faster you go, with all that additional weight, the harder the brakes and tires have to work to slow you down again. This stresses these components more than on a lighter car that's probably not going quite as fast. This additional stress wears the parts out faster, so you're more likely to see brake fade setting in sooner on something like a Mustang than on a Miata.