Production Toyota FT-86 Details and Design Previewed by Toyota Sports Vehicle Boss

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by cyde01

why are we even talking about honda on this thread??

Should we talk about how the FT86 needs at least 413hp to be relevant versus the Mustang instead?

Just trying to pass the time until Tokyo.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by nate89

Yamaha + Toyota = Best engines ever! FHI can say they're callin the shots, but we all know who's behind the curtain pullin the strings.

Why do you say that? I don't know my Toyota + Yamaha collaboration efforts all that well, except for the 2ZZ-GE. I know retuned / supercharged versions of the engine sit in the Elise / Exige, but on its own merit, the engine was peaky and have had some production issues.

By its own merit, I can't recall any recent-ish mainstream Toyota engine that impresses me from a performance stand point. The Camry V6 certainly has a lot of grunt, but I only find it more or less competitive with similar offerings from Nissan and Honda. And I'd have to say, I like Nissan's VQ better than Toyota or Honda's big V6's.

At any rate, the FB engine started life as a Subaru design. I'd be very much interested in how it performs.

[Praetendere]

Originally Posted by Traum

Why do you say that? I don't know my Toyota + Yamaha collaboration efforts all that well, except for the 2ZZ-GE. I know retuned / supercharged versions of the engine sit in the Elise / Exige, but on its own merit, the engine was peaky and have had some production issues.

By its own merit, I can't recall any recent-ish mainstream Toyota engine that impresses me from a performance stand point. The Camry V6 certainly has a lot of grunt, but I only find it more or less competitive with similar offerings from Nissan and Honda. And I'd have to say, I like Nissan's VQ better than Toyota or Honda's big V6's.

At any rate, the FB engine started life as a Subaru design. I'd be very much interested in how it performs.

Have a look at the 1LR-GUE and the 2UR-GSE, both are Toyota engines.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Praetendere

Have a look at the 1LR-GUE and the 2UR-GSE, both are Toyota engines.

1LR-GUE is a poor example here because it was essentially a Toyota technology showcase, so design cost was not a consideration at all. Plus, it is also a limited production engine.

The 2UR-GSE is a more relevant example, and it is certainly a worthy engine. But when more cylinders / displacement are involved, the results are generally more favourable. For example, is there any recent-ish V8 that you would openly criticize? Even if we're talking about the Ford Mustang GT's V8, it was still good enough to be listed as one of the 10 Ward's best engine for a few years.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Traum

1LR-GUE is a poor example here because it was essentially a Toyota technology showcase, so design cost was not a consideration at all. Plus, it is also a limited production engine.

The 2UR-GSE is a more relevant example, and it is certainly a worthy engine. But when more cylinders / displacement are involved, the results are generally more favourable. For example, is there any recent-ish V8 that you would openly criticize? Even if we're talking about the Ford Mustang GT's V8, it was still good enough to be listed as one of the 10 Ward's best engine for a few years.

Pretty much every Toyota performance 'G' motor has had Yamaha assistance. 3SG(T)E, 4AG(Z)E, the JZ motors, the original 2000GT had an all Yamaha motor, 2ZZGE as already mentioned. Not sure about the 7MG(T)E as it's not super rev-happy... Also probably some of the old 'Twin Cam' Toyota's (before the Gs) too.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Traum

By its own merit, I can't recall any recent-ish mainstream Toyota engine that impresses me from a performance stand point. The Camry V6 certainly has a lot of grunt, but I only find it more or less competitive with similar offerings from Nissan and Honda. And I'd have to say, I like Nissan's VQ better than Toyota or Honda's big V6's.

2GR-FSE > Anything in Hondas lineup right now. In fact, @ 3.5L it makes more torque than Honda's 3.5, Nissan's 3.7L VVL V6 and Hyundai's 3.8L V6 (Up till this year anyway). It's smooth, efficient, has an excellent powerband and has room for more than a few ponies still on the table without bumping displacement. Want more mainstream than that?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

2GR-FSE > Anything in Hondas lineup right now. In fact, @ 3.5L it makes more torque than Honda's 3.5, Nissan's 3.7L VVL V6 and Hyundai's 3.8L V6 (Up till this year anyway). It's smooth, efficient, has an excellent powerband and has room for more than a few ponies still on the table without bumping displacement. Want more mainstream than that?

But was Yamaha involved? That was the original issue. (But like that matters here...)

[Traum]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

2GR-FSE > Anything in Hondas lineup right now. In fact, @ 3.5L it makes more torque than Honda's 3.5, Nissan's 3.7L VVL V6 and Hyundai's 3.8L V6 (Up till this year anyway). It's smooth, efficient, has an excellent powerband and has room for more than a few ponies still on the table without bumping displacement. Want more mainstream than that?

Good example.

Now I just have to con somebody into letting me try it.

(Just for kicks, I'm purposely gonna try to be a prick -- can I have that engine with a manual transmission just like what I can get in an G-coupe? )

[serialk11r]

Yup Lexus IS has manual option. Although I heard it's not a very good transmission

Since we're moving topics at such a fast rate, I'm going to ask, why don't they make 7 speed manuals? The only reason low displacement engines like the 2ZZ-GE and F20C aren't doing as well as they could in the fuel economy department is the lack of a high gear...I assume you need all 6 gears for max performance, okay sure add a 7th one for cruising then?

[Traum]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yup Lexus IS has manual option. Although I heard it's not a very good transmission

At least up here in Canada, the manual tranny only comes in the IS250. The IS350 can only be had with the slushbox (which is why I brought up the question in the first place.)

[serialk11r]

Oh dude you are right, it is auto only. Although in the case of this car (and the Infiniti G for that matter) I'd be hesitant to buy the manual since those auto units are supposed to be very good, locked torque converter past first gear, smooth shifting. In the G's case, it also has 7 speeds. What I read was that the manual transmission on the IS is just absolute trash, and completely lacks the refinement expected from a luxury vehicle.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yup Lexus IS has manual option. Although I heard it's not a very good transmission

Since we're moving topics at such a fast rate, I'm going to ask, why don't they make 7 speed manuals? The only reason low displacement engines like the 2ZZ-GE and F20C aren't doing as well as they could in the fuel economy department is the lack of a high gear...I assume you need all 6 gears for max performance, okay sure add a 7th one for cruising then?

Heard Porsche is looking into this.

Edit: 2GRFSE is available in 6MT when it's transverse mounted in the Evora, I believe.

[serialk11r]

Oh right Evora.
btw any reason that engine can't rev higher? It's got 83mm stroke compared to 86 on the VQ37VHR, and much lighter internals.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Oh right Evora.
btw any reason that engine can't rev higher? It's got 83mm stroke compared to 86 on the VQ37VHR, and much lighter internals.

valve train balance? piston height + compression? Displacement? bore size? economy?

just because a engine has low reciprocating mass and a short stroke doesn't automatically mean it will REV high. There are other determining factors and safety measures engineers place on the engine to determine its rev range.

im guessing the fact that the 2GR has a big bore and its displacement is a 3.5 liter, makes its peak HP around 6k and peak TQ at in the lower 4k RPMs. Probably makes the 83mm stroke not that impressive when considering all the other elements.