Production Toyota FT-86 Details and Design Previewed by Toyota Sports Vehicle Boss

[ryun84]

Toyota + Yamaha has great history. I'm excited to see what Toyota + Subaru + Yamaha will produce.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Driftster

i see...the 2000gt....aaaannndd..that's really the only one substantial engine i can think of that was anything more than "hopefully up to bar by scale"

i could go through the list and all..but there really wasn't anything worth bragging about...I like the 2jz-gte and it had a ...decent head design but it's flow was not amazing by any means....it was just another in a long list of "robust block designs" that could handle crazy cylinder pressures.

the rest were really....meh....not saying any company really outshined them, but they never left a mark...3sgte MAYBE but was completely eclipsed (no pun) by the 4g.


I have hope for this Fb20 engine, but hard facts are hard to argue and thus far it's looking to be one of those "alright we bought a car, what are we gonna do with it? Take the engine out!!!!" cars.

It was implied in the Moto-P post that this was somewhat accounted for. If you want an EJ207 in this, go for it, it'll scream.

[madfast]

subaru is like the director of a movie. hands on, and directly responsible for the material. toyota is like the producer. they are the guys with the money, that are on set and work with the director but ultimately they call the shots. yamaha in this case would be like the director of photography, helping out the director...

good analogy?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by madfast

subaru is like the director of a movie. hands on, and directly responsible for the material. toyota is like the producer. they are the guys with the money, that are on set and work with the director but ultimately they call the shots. yamaha in this case would be like the director of photography, helping out the director...

good analogy?

Even SOA Blog admitted that Toyota engineers are working on it.

We must have missed someone saying that last part.

"Leading the engineering" means just that.. our chief engineer is head of the engineering side of the project, supported in the main by FHI engineers but certainly working with Toyota engineers too. In the end it comes down to your definition of engineering. Our guys aren't turning the parts on the lathes themselves... as in all car design there's a whole host of sub-suppliers working on their respective areas. When the time is right we'll share a picture of the engineering sign-off event with all the Fuji engineers, it was pretty cool.

Mr Moto may well have had a conversation with Toyota (and we're checking on that) but with all due respect to him we have a broader view of the business here than perhaps he does.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=1058

Now given the relationship of the partnership, would you care to speculate where in the hierarchy the Toyota engineers would fit? Tada seems to be up there doesn't he?

I really don't know why SOA is trying soooo hard to try to minimize Toyota's role in the project...

(Yamaha is director of horsepower and music.)

[Aki]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It was followed up today with this:

Think SOA Blog is so full of it. Yes FHI is doing a lot of the work, it's based off their boxer engine after all--but it's not as though Toyota leaves them the pieces of D4-S, blueprints and just lets Subaru do the rest. Integration of that technology will inevitably require a lot of engineering collaboration--something SOA Blog almost implies doesn't happen. They keep making it sound like FHI does everything, and the only thing Toyota does is maybe help polish the wheels. They're not lying because they're just rhetorical implication, but I think what they say sounds misleading.

[Matador]

To paraphrase the old dude from 40yr old virgin (which the SOA Blog posters well might be) SOA Blog can go fuck a goat.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Aki

Think SOA Blog is so full of it. Yes FHI is doing a lot of the work, it's based off their boxer engine after all--but it's not as though Toyota leaves them the pieces of D4-S, blueprints and just lets Subaru do the rest. Integration of that technology will inevitably require a lot of engineering collaboration--something SOA Blog almost implies doesn't happen. They keep making it sound like FHI does everything, and the only thing Toyota does is maybe help polish the wheels. They're not lying because they're just rhetorical implication, but I think what they say sounds misleading.

They never said they are doing ALL of the work. One person mistakenly quoted them as saying that, but they have always said that Toyota is a partner in all of this. Their latest quote was to correct what Moto said in his post. It is being taken out of context to make it sound like they are trying to claim all the credit for the engine work, which is not the case. What they have said the whole time is that they are leading the engineering on the project. Toyota, Yamaha, and lots of other companies are helping them, obviously. They have never denied that.

Moto said:

The engine? It's still EJ20 based shape. But Toyota re-casted everything, even down to the engine block with a new design, and with the Yamaha acoustics assigned to make every pulse, beat, and soul of air and vibration to become something to spice performance and tactile feel.

SOA Blog was responding to that statement.

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by nate89

Yamaha + Toyota = Best engines ever! FHI can say they're callin the shots, but we all know who's behind the curtain pullin the strings.

I remember when Honda = Best Motor. What happened to those guys? They just seem to constantly disappoint these days.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by enc0re

I remember when Honda = Best Motor. What happened to those guys? They just seem to constantly disappoint these days.

Yea it's kinda strange how nowadays it seems like every other company is trying hard to push out new better motors, while Honda just chills and keeps on recycling their old ones.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea it's kinda strange how nowadays it seems like every other company is trying hard to push out new better motors, while Honda just chills and keeps on recycling their old ones.

I'd say it depends on what you are looking for in your engine.

If fuel economy and smoothness / low NVH are what you are looking for, certain Honda engines still delivery that. The R series is very frugal on gas, and the K series is still smooth and sufficiently rev-happy even by today's standards. But as far as power and torque are concerned, Honda has really fallen behind because of how conservative they have been.

[serialk11r]

I'd say they're falling behind on fuel economy too. In recent years basically every company out there has been pursuing direct injection, and many are pursuing variable lift/duration, with BMW and Nissan close to having both standard and Toyota following suit. Honda has not been able to bring any of these to the market. There has been no news of AVTEC whatsoever. These 2 technologies both give a very large improvement in efficiency, and some power too.

For similar displacement engines and vehicle sizes, I'm pretty sure Toyota is doing better with both fuel economy and power, and the gap will only get wider as Toyota brings more tech into more engines. Forget Toyota, Hyundai cars have super high EPA ratings already (although EPA testing isn't perfect it gives some sort of idea).

[cyde01]

why are we even talking about honda on this thread??

[serialk11r]

Why not? Since when were discussions ever on topic around here :P

[Dark]

^^ We always go off topic like a week or so.