Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[mhigham]

Originally Posted by Wcmarshall

Is anybody keeping track of the average and range of time that it takes to get a new ECM? Seems like 3 to 4 weeks lately but I would love to know if anyone has had any success getting the dealers to expedite delivery. Or said another way do you think that certain dealers have more pull or leverage than others to get backordered parts faster?

It seems they would expedite for various reasons. Here in Michigan, Lemon Law is 30 days in shop - I am on day 6 already.

Mike

[Rob_g]

Originally Posted by Sean K.

Toyota UK wrote:

We are pleased to confirm that the software homologation has now been completed and that it will be available on Thursday 25th October 2012. As this is now so close and a failure typically occurs within the first 2,000 miles we have taken the decision to hold deliveries of new cars until the software upgrade has taken place.

Oh great my car has homo software now...

No offense to anyone

Rob

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by KrzysFR

Have you guys seen this ? Toyota UK Statement : CEL/Idle/VVT Issue 22/10/12

I'm calling my dealership tomorrow to rub this in their face, and see if they heard from their pals form Toyota France. Probably they told them to wait until the 25th for the firmware to be certified in France too ?

Note the 4% data point in the anouncement. That means 36 cars out of 900 are having the problem AT THE MOMENT in the UK. How many more not yet diagnosed, or where the owners did not notice or were turned away by the dealers telling them this is "normal" ?

Thanks for posting the link! Looks like they FINALLY have gotten a grip on it

[silverbullet]

Was told I would have my car back yesterday. Yesterday I was told I would have my car back today. Today I was told re-flashing the ECU isnt going to work and it needs to be replaced. I was told the replacement would be in tomorrow but I highly doubt that is the case. Fun.

[killercl0wnfish]

Well got a update from scion.... they orderd me a new ecu but there not sure when it wil come in

[mhigham]

Originally Posted by killercl0wnfish

Well got a update from scion.... they orderd me a new ecu but there not sure when it wil come in

Spoke with Scion customer care this afternoon. They said ECU's are being overnighted in batches from Japan, then droppped shipped to dealers overnight, circumventing the parts network. So dealers will list "NO ETA" because it will just show up.

They even said "Depending on your exposure to social media and forums, you might be incorrectly informed of repair procedures or parts status."

The wait continues....

[hankster]

VVTi Controllers manufactured to a tighter specification have been available to fit to those vehicles experiencing the rough running condition

hmm, interesting - tighten the tolerances in the hardware or expand the range in the ecu

[jduffy]

Originally Posted by hankster

hmm, interesting - tighten the tolerances in the hardware or expand the range in the ecu

It makes one wonder if there will be three versions of the car:

1) Never needed the fix.

2) Fixed by hardware.

3) Fixed by software.

All three cars should be dynoed at some point for a comparison.

[dawnst3ar]

Picked the FR-S up on my way home from work. drove around 15 miles and so far no sign of the idle issue. Also, it is interesting to note that all that was done in the end (for this issue) was the replacement of the ECU. I will keep you all posted if there is any change.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by hankster

hmm, interesting - tighten the tolerances in the hardware or expand the range in the ecu

Yeah. I thought we were addressing "tolerance stacking" or some such thing. Is tightening tolerances the fix for tolerance stacking?

Originally Posted by jduffy

It makes one wonder if there will be three versions of the car:

1) Never needed the fix.

2) Fixed by hardware.

3) Fixed by software.

All three cars should be dynoed at some point for a comparison.

You may have a point about three versions. This is getting too weird.

[eurospeed]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Yeah. I thought we were addressing "tolerance stacking" or some such thing. Is tightening tolerances the fix for tolerance stacking?

You may have a point about three versions. This is getting too weird.

The way I see this is a typical band-aid approach to a design oversight and a manufacturing error. Here is how I believe it may have unfolded:

- Car Company X (CCX) designer specifies a very tight +/-0.001 positional tolerance on a timing feature for the cam sprocket assembly
- XYZ manufacturer machines part, but timing feature is actually 0.002 over max. and misses first article inspection
- sprocket assembly is assembled in the engine along with ECU which is programmed to expect a 0.001 max error
- engine runs with timing slightly off at times (idle dip) until the sprocket hits a critical position and the ECU flags a discrepancy
- fault code is stored and CCX enters troubleshoot mode to address an increase in field repairs
- replacing cam sprocket assemblies didn't always work as many contained the manufacturing defect, or to say another way, tight toleranced features which just could not be controlled by the manufacturer
- CCX's solution was to reprogram the ECU with relaxed tolerances to compensate for the manufacturing shortcomings
- while engine damage levels are claimed to be minimal overall, in some instances the tolerance deviations could be significant enough to allow gross timing errors; will we ever know how much damage outside of the premature engine failures?

jduffy makes a very valid point as we may now have significant variations of this engine. The ECU appears to be masking the timing errors and how will that affect performance?

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by eurospeed

The way I see this is a typical band-aid approach to a design oversight and a manufacturing error. Here is how I believe it may have unfolded:

- Car Company X (CCX) designer specifies a very tight +/-0.001 positional tolerance on a timing feature for the cam sprocket assembly
- XYZ manufacturer machines part, but timing feature is actually 0.002 over max. and misses first article inspection
- sprocket assembly is assembled in the engine along with ECU which is programmed to expect a 0.001 max error
- engine runs with timing slightly off at times (idle dip) until the sprocket hits a critical position and the ECU flags a discrepancy
- fault code is stored and CCX enters troubleshoot mode
- replacing cam sprocket assemblies didn't always work as many contained the manufacturing defect, or to say another way, tight toleranced features which just could not be controlled by the manufacturer
- CCX's solution was to reprogram the ECU with relaxed tolerances to compensate for the manufacturing shortcomings
- while damage levels are claimed to be minimal overall, in some instances the tolerance deviations could be significant enough to allow gross timing errors; will we ever know outside of the premature engine failures?

jduffy makes a very valid point as we may now have significant variations of this engine. The ECU appears to be masking the timing errors and how will that affect performance?

Which is why I'm expecting revised hp figures in the coming years a la Mazda RX8.

[TurnOne]

Update on Round #2: Dealership #1 owner called me back today and agreed to buy the car bike from me, so I will be refunded my single loan payment, my downpayment, and my tag fee. They will cut me a check for the above amount and have me sign over the car to them. They will also have the loan paid off or undone.
In other words, I don't have to lemon law the car and get out pretty easy.

Clayton sent me the paperwork for arbitration and it arrived via USPS today. I won't be needing it. It was unlikely that I would use it instead of the Ohio Lemon laws, but was good to see he did what he said.

I also filled out the Scion customer service questionaire and gave poor marks to Clayton's handling of the situation.

On a happy note: My BRZ is running perfectly for 850+ miles so far. No idle issue or any problems to note. Car runs strong and is great to drive. I am very happy to have the additional features of the BRZ Limited.

[killercl0wnfish]

Clayton is the guy who is dealing with my clame to from scion..... i want to keep my car but would like some kind of good faith gift ...