Motor Trend, August issue.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by RRnold

They can dig up some dirt on a Impreza n WRX split 3 yrs from now but they can provide any details on the Subaru version of the FT86 set to be released next Spring?!!

It's the calm before the storm. The car will probably be fully revealed this winter. Besides, Subaru developed the FT-86 for Toyota....they're going to want to talk about their crown jewel, the WRX, more. Subaru is an AWD company and they have a WRC reputation to win back!

[madfast]

The FT86 is the sister car. what the quote means is that because the FT exists, the 25k sportscar role is filled. and that means the WRX can move up and be a more sporty, more expensive car. the STI will then be an even racier version. think 911 and 911 GT3... and the FT is like the Boxster/Cayman. you always need that entry level model. makes perfect sense now doesnt it? WRX will have the turbo awd stuff everyone here keeps yapping about. FT will be NA and RWD, and above all its gonna be cheap to replace the current WRX price point...

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by madfast

The FT86 is the sister car. what the quote means is that because the FT exists, the 25k sportscar role is filled. and that means the WRX can move up and be a more sporty, more expensive car. the STI will then be an even racier version. think 911 and 911 GT3...

That's exactly the way I understood the article too.

The presence of the FT-86 twin/sister car in the line up is allowing the WRX to go up market and become an even faster/better/more focussed performance vehicle as the NA FT-86 will handle the entry level sports car duties.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

The FT86 is the sister car. what the quote means is that because the FT exists, the 25k sportscar role is filled. and that means the WRX can move up and be a more sporty, more expensive car. the STI will then be an even racier version. think 911 and 911 GT3...

Negative Ghost Rider. They specifically state that they developed a sister car to the FT-86, and that development on that car prompted the management to allow them to go more hardcore on the next WRX.

The article clearly states MY2014. The Subaru Coupe twin to the FT-86 is coming out next year. Next Gen WRX =/= 2012 Subaru Coupe...which we've had repeated confirmation on that fact that it is RWD only....so much so that Australia might not even want the car.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Negative Ghost Rider. They specifically state that they developed a sister car to the FT-86, and that development on that car prompted the management to allow them to go more hardcore on the next WRX.

The article clearly states MY2014. The Subaru Coupe twin to the FT-86 is coming out next year. Next Gen WRX =/= 2012 Subaru Coupe...which we've had repeated confirmation on that fact that it is RWD only....so much so that Australia might not even want the car.

i think we're both saying the same thing. when i say FT86 i mean both the toyota and subaru models since they are both basically the same.

because the FT86 exists, they can make the WRX faster and not have to hold back just so it stays in that 25k price point. the FT86 will take that spot while the WRX moves up. the STI will move further up perhaps into a limited edition sort of car.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

i think we're both saying the same thing. when i say FT86 i mean both the toyota and subaru models since they are both basically the same.

because the FT86 exists, they can make the WRX faster and not have to hold back just so it stays in that 25k price point. the FT86 will take that spot while the WRX moves up. the STI will move further up perhaps into a limited edition sort of car.

Ah ok.

I don't completely agree on the 25k part but I do agree that the Subaru Coupe and WRX are definitely not the same car.

The subie-coupe is low 20s...maybe 20-22k. I can't imagine they'd be able to justify charging more than that.

That leaves the 25-28k market for the WRX, and the 30-35k market for the STI

They don't really need to make the WRX faster at all...it already posts 0-60 times in the high 4's....lol. I'd say that's enough differentiation from the SubCoupe. If it drops weight and loses 20-30hp it'll still post similar times...it'll just handle better than before. Remember....on real-world roads, the current base WRX will annihilate even the new 400+hp mustangs (at least from a standing start) because real roads have dust and less traction than a test track. The Mustang will sit and spin and won't catch up to the WRX till they're both well into licence-revoking speeds. If both cars are already moving though, the mustang will spank it hard.

[CyberFormula]

as much as I respect Subaru's "proven awd"....

why has pretty much every single STI understeered?

[ydooby]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Balance is nice and all, especially as a marketing catch-phrase, but as I've said before: If all the FT-86 can do is feel nice when the steering wheel isn't centered, then it better come with free blowjobs. A faster, grippier, marginally heavier AWD turbo rocket engineered specifically as a platform to dominate WRC isn't going to handle poorly

AWD grip is nice all but sometimes it's not about getting to the finish line first, but about being able to have fun tossing your car into every corner and easily control your drift angle on your way out, and that's when balance comes into play. Good luck winning D1 with the WRX.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by ydooby

AWD grip is nice all but sometimes it's not about getting to the finish line first, but about being able to have fun tossing your car into every corner and easily control your drift angle on your way out, and that's when balance comes into play. Good luck winning D1 with the WRX.

I think drifting is silly. It's a waste of tires and the slowest way around a corner.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Ah ok.

I don't completely agree on the 25k part but I do agree that the Subaru Coupe and WRX are definitely not the same car.

The subie-coupe is low 20s...maybe 20-22k. I can't imagine they'd be able to justify charging more than that.

That leaves the 25-28k market for the WRX, and the 30-35k market for the STI

They don't really need to make the WRX faster at all...it already posts 0-60 times in the high 4's....lol. I'd say that's enough differentiation from the SubCoupe. If it drops weight and loses 20-30hp it'll still post similar times...it'll just handle better than before. Remember....on real-world roads, the current base WRX will annihilate even the new 400+hp mustangs (at least from a standing start) because real roads have dust and less traction than a test track. The Mustang will sit and spin and won't catch up to the WRX till they're both well into licence-revoking speeds. If both cars are already moving though, the mustang will spank it hard.

we're on the same page, but i dont think your numbers are right. we all hope for cheaper cars but lets be realistic. if the scion iQ is friggin 16k how on earth is the FT going to be 20-22k? no way man!!!

-the FT replaces the WRX's spot as the entry level 25k sportscar.
-the next WRX will approach where the STI is today, likely about 30k
-the next STI will be a "race car for the road" (their words) that's probably going to be at least 35k, maybe even more.

what the article basically says is that we can no longer think of the WRX as a kitted up impreza. they made it its own model because it will be a more hardcore car, kinda like what the STI is today. and the new STI is going to be like the REAL homologated rally cars of the past.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

as much as I respect Subaru's "proven awd"....

why has pretty much every single STI understeered?

Because the boxer engine is way out over the front axle. That seems to be what they're aiming at fixing by separating it from the Impreza. That and a 1.6L unit is going to weigh less.

Also, AWD always makes a car understeer to some extent IF you accelerate and turn at the same time. Any time you're asking a tire to provide both forward and lateral acceleration at the same time you're going to produce understeer. A modern WRX that is cornered hard at a steady throttle will break into a 4 wheel drift as opposed to understeer....they only understeer if you try to accelerate hard before the apex. Hell, even my FWD GTI will break into a 4 wheel drift when cornered hard so long as I'm not accelerating at the same time. And it'll slowly hang the tail out if I lift-throttle mid corner.

That said...the current WRXs may understeer at the limit, but their limits are so high that unless you're insane or completely irresponsible, you're not going to exceed them on public roads. Most people back off way before getting to the .93-.95 G threshold.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

we're on the same page, but i dont think your numbers are right. we all hope for cheaper cars but lets be realistic. if the scion iQ is friggin 16k how on earth is the FT going to be 20-22k? no way man!!!

-the FT replaces the WRX's spot as the entry level 25k sportscar.
-the next WRX will approach where the STI is today, likely about 30k
-the next STI will be a "race car for the road" (their words) that's probably going to be at least 35k, maybe even more.

what the article basically says is that we can no longer think of the WRX as a kitted up impreza. they made it its own model because it will be a more hardcore car, kinda like what the STI is today. and the new STI is going to be like the REAL homologated rally cars of the past.

Can't agree there. The iQ being 4-6 thousand dollars less than the FT makes perfect sense. That's a lot of money.

This car is going to offer marginally improved performance over a Miata, without the convertible experience. It's not worth Miata money. It's worth Civic Si money.

Think of it this way: If they FT debuts at 25k, it'll be at 30k by the time it's lifecycle is over. That would be a mission failure.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Can't agree there. The iQ being 4-6 thousand dollars less than the FT makes perfect sense. That's a lot of money.

This car is going to offer marginally improved performance over a Miata, without the convertible experience. It's not worth Miata money. It's worth Civic Si money.

Think of it this way: If they FT debuts at 25k, it'll be at 30k by the time it's lifecycle is over. That would be a mission failure.

the civic si is basically a regular civic with a k series motor. a version of the motor that came out in the 2002 rsx type s. not THAT much has changed in this decade old motor. you can see how honda sells it so cheap. they didnt have to do much to make the car exist.

with the FT you're dealing with a new or heavily revised chassis of some sort, with a new or heavily revised engine, with new body work, new interior, etc... i'd be very surprised if they can sell it at 20-22k. im not getting my hopes up...

[ydooby]

Originally Posted by Maxim

I think drifting is silly. It's a waste of tires and the slowest way around a corner.

Just a different kind of fun my friend. Getting the maximum possible amount of side-way action through a corner by carefully negotiating your throttle and steering angle can be equally satisfying as nailing the same corner in the shortest possible amount of time by staying on the best line.

Also, drifting is not necessarily slower. In very tight corners (often seen in autocross) or on low-grip surface (dirt tracks?) you can go around a corner faster by retaining more drive-train momentum/speed in a controlled drift than if you slow enough to "grip" through the turns. Hence you already have your transmission and drive wheels "spun up" as you exit the turns, allowing faster acceleration times coming out of them.