Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

My belife is that the tolerances inside the cam gears are actually a little TOO tight for some of them function properly. It goes to this concept of tolerances "stacking up" inside the cam gear (this was mentioned in Toyota's official communication). Inside these things there are basically a bunch of parts. If each one of them is a little on the large side then all of them together won't move too well...

...in a way I really appreciate that this could even be a problem because it means that the engineers who worked on the cam gears are designing the tolerances for ware. As our motors get older these delicate and expensive assemblies will continue to function as intended.

So to your question; the harder the break-in the looser the tolerances become?

Okay. Let's say these lovely, tight tolerances are a good thing. Engines are breaking. Maybe it's too much of a good thing.

How do you figure that "delicate and expensive" is going to improve durability? I'm not following your logic here.

[JohnS_Rosamond]

On the hard break in versus soft:
I was under the impression that the "softer" break in was to save the rings and cylinder bores (more even wear). If you're hard on the engine to "break in" the VVT units, you are by default sacrificing the cylinders. I would rather save the cylinders get the CEL and wait for top end to work itself out.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Marrk

How do you figure that "delicate and expensive" is going to improve durability? I'm not following your logic here.

I'm not saying that "delicate and expensive" improves durability. I am implying that these cam may be engineered in such a fashion where as they ware with age they continue to function normally.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by JohnS_Rosamond

On the hard break in versus soft:
I was under the impression that the "softer" break in was to save the rings and cylinder bores (more even wear). If you're hard on the engine to "break in" the VVT units, you are by default sacrificing the cylinders. I would rather save the cylinders get the CEL and wait for top end to work itself out.

AMEN Brother!

That is indeed the problem here with these two different break-in requirements. Crappy cam gears now or engine rebuilds later?

[TheRipler]

Originally Posted by JohnS_Rosamond

On the hard break in versus soft:
I was under the impression that the "softer" break in was to save the rings and cylinder bores (more even wear). If you're hard on the engine to "break in" the VVT units, you are by default sacrificing the cylinders. I would rather save the cylinders get the CEL and wait for top end to work itself out.

I don't think it's a big deal for the rings or cylinder bores. Engines can be broken in within a couple of hours on a dyno, and not suffer any reliability problems. It goes on all the time. You have to remember that you're breaking in everything on the car. Brakes, clutch, tires, struts, transmission, diff, chassis etc..

Just as an example, a new clutch can come with a 500 mile break in.

[eurospeed]

Originally Posted by darnbry

I'm having the same issues as everyone cel and sl light on plus the shaking of engine and misfire while in idle mode. My question is has anyone got any compensation for this ? And how did you get it?

You need to call Scion corporate and start a case with them. Also, at what mileage did your CEL occur and what are the last four of your VIN (use XX for last two). Thanks.

[eurospeed]

Originally Posted by ap5512

Now, the confusion I have is...is the TSB for Subaru which replaces the HPFP going to fix the CEL/SL issue? I've read horror stories about CAM sprockets being replaced and other major mechanical repairs being done. I almost feel like they cleared the CEL so I won't find out the true issue and they are going to do the TSB which I think only fixes the chirping noise OR they aren't that knowledgeable about the issues facing our cars. Am I missing something here and what do you guys think I should do??? Hopefully you guys can help me clear up some of this confusion..thanks.

The HPFP noise and the CEL/idle issue are two distinctly different problems. A TSB only exists for the HPFP noise and not the CEL/idle issue. Regarding cam sprockets, the horror stories are real sometimes requiring multiple component replacements and even leading to engine failure in some instances. This has not been, by any stretch, a pleasant experience for most of us affected.

Also, at what mileage did your CEL occur and what are the last four of your VIN (use XX for last two). Thanks.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by JohnS_Rosamond

On the hard break in versus soft:
I was under the impression that the "softer" break in was to save the rings and cylinder bores (more even wear). If you're hard on the engine to "break in" the VVT units, you are by default sacrificing the cylinders. I would rather save the cylinders get the CEL and wait for top end to work itself out.

You have that backwards. A hard break-in is to seat the rings — a good thing. The cylinder bores are, in fact, imprinted with a hatch-mark pattern so that they are "rough" when new. The idea is that the slightly over-sized new rings will wear against the rough cylinder walls and seat against them. The roughness of the bores actually gets smooth very quickly. Some people say the entire process is over in the first twenty miles.

With a "rough" break-in, you are using compression to force the rings against the rough cylinder walls.

[Cade01]

Originally Posted by Marrk

You have that backwards. A hard break-in is to seat the rings — a good thing. The cylinder bores are, in fact, imprinted with a hatch-mark pattern so that they are "rough" when new. The idea is that the slightly over-sized new rings will wear against the rough cylinder walls and seat against them. The roughness of the bores actually gets smooth very quickly. Some people say the entire process is over in the first twenty miles.

With a "rough" break-in, you are using compression to force the rings against the rough cylinder walls.

Don't know if it's true or not, correct me if I'm wrong. I've also heard that cars that are driven long periods of time at lower RPMs can develop a lip near the top of the stroke, and if the car is driven hard after this lip develops it can damage the rings as the higher RPMs cause the pistons and rods to push out further than they normally would at the lower RPMs.

[CMOS]

Originally Posted by Marrk

You have that backwards. A hard break-in is to seat the rings — a good thing. The cylinder bores are, in fact, imprinted with a hatch-mark pattern so that they are "rough" when new. The idea is that the slightly over-sized new rings will wear against the rough cylinder walls and seat against them. The roughness of the bores actually gets smooth very quickly. Some people say the entire process is over in the first twenty miles.

With a "rough" break-in, you are using compression to force the rings against the rough cylinder walls.

At the minimum of 10hz those things should have been mated by the time the factory finished on the dyno. I'm more worried about the chunks of metal in the oil having sufficient time to be blown away rather then trapped in between.

[86BRZ]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

Has anyone done an average mileage of when the CEL issue hits? I've been following this thread with dread as my FR-S is right in the middle of the affected VIN's. I'm at about 2200 miles and so far, everything's been cool.

See my post #1209 this thred.

[kaitak98]

My problem is that I really haven't had the idle issue. Only the CEL and SL. The car seems to run a little rough and be down a bit on power but it is a small enough that I question whether I'm imagining it. But it idles rock solid at 650 only blipping a bit if the ac comes on.

The problem came up 3 starts after the dealer had the intake off to check the cricket issue. When I went back they rechecked all the work and cleared the code. It was back 3 starts later. The timing makes me think it has to be an electronic issue but the more I read the more I don't know. Reading that the reflash could just be masking a real cam issue... I'm not sure what to think.

Depending on how long it takes to fix this problem and with the GPS and the crickets I'm thinking of asking for the extended warranty to be compped. If they have faith in the product all it will cost them is their share of the profit on the extended coverage.

Any thought on the CEL/SL with no idle drop?

To add info to my line in the OP....

BRZ Limited MT 2200 miles 6028xx Going in to be seen by factory rep 10/17. Atlanta,GA

[atledreier]

Is your code the same as the others here kaitak98?

[KrzysFR]

Just got back from the dealership, got code P0019. Told them to clear the code and to not touch my car until they get more details from HQ. It seems that there is no technical bulletin yet published by Toyota France for the CEL/Idle issue (or there is but they don't want to tell me).

At least I can drive the car and wait for someone to call me back with actual knowledge about how to fix this.