Scion TC owners bitter?

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by vtmike

First, I'm not talking about drag racing. I suspect you aren't either. Going from a roll is not racing at all.

Second, an evo 9 with a tune and bolt ons is in the 330 whp ballpark while e85 tuned ones are over 400 whp. This would absolutely destroy a 300 whp tC in a drag race.

I was giving you one set of psi, not where it stops for a stock motor. Seen 350-400whp stock 93 pump gas tC's. Drag racing from a dig would be the AWD advantage, that's a no brainer. An SRT-4 is not AWD, which you mentioned that as well. Secondly, If just say you were to add a roll run, I would put a 350whp tC against a 400whp Evo/STI and put my bet on the tC to win due to being less weight (not to mention seeing that I've seen a 300whp take out a near 400whp STI before). 10psi on a capable turbo you can expect 320-330whp and torque. 11.5-12 about 350-360whp. And that's just straight pump. Of course e85 will be a different story, but where internals start to fail is around 400whp.

Originally Posted by vtmike

Third, put that tC on a road course and the evo would beat it even worse. It can actually put its power down, has a much better chassis, brakes, steering, balance, and can accommodate much wider tires.

This comment fails, because drivers are not created equal. If they were, there wouldn't be vids of a tC on the track, running down an M3, Vette, Evo, R35 GTR..etc. The wide tire part was commical as you can stuff huge rubber under a lot of cars (including tC's), but it doesn't mean it's going to work to your advantage. To wide on an AWD could result in more understeer.

You can sit here and bench race all you want to. All I'm just telling you is, it's not as slow as you think it would be. That is all. Don't bother responding if all you going to do is say well..."X car with X mod and this boost will destroy a tC"....blah blah blah.

[naikaidriver]

To the OP... Every Scion owner I have come across has loved my car and given tons of compliments at the shows it has been in. Only people trying to race me have been in older Mustangs and 4th gen Camaros and its not from a lack of ricers around here.

My wife is a tC owner and its a wonderful car. I love driving it and always have. She was gracious enough to even let me autocross it because I didn't want to drive the bimmer hard since it was 10 years old. The last event I competed in, I beat everyone except the regional champion in a Cooper S (actually he handed me my @#$%). That little AUTOMATIC tC beat two RSXs, Focus SVT, and two Honda Civics among the "faster" H stock cars.

Is it in the same class as an FR-S? Absolutely not. Is it fair to even try and compare the two in an intelligent manner? Nope. Different cars built for different purposes purchased by different people. I understand how, as enthusiasts, people endow thier cars with powers that are more perceived that actual, but lets be real.

Scott

[low trq]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

This comment fails, because drivers are not created equal. If they were, there wouldn't be vids of a tC on the track, running down an M3, Vette, Evo, R35 GTR..etc. The wide tire part was commical as you can stuff huge rubber under a lot of cars (including tC's), but it doesn't mean it's going to work to your advantage. To wide on an AWD could result in more understeer.

You can sit here and bench race all you want to. All I'm just telling you is, it's not as slow as you think it would be. That is all. Don't bother responding if all you going to do is say well..."X car with X mod and this boost will destroy a tC"....blah blah blah.

You fail. Your premise is that it's 90% driver, agreed. So that means I should pick a poor track car...for my track car? The TC is a poor choice for a race car end of story.

[mike@vossen]

Family love!!!!!

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by low trq

You fail. Your premise is that it's 90% driver, agreed. So that means I should pick a poor track car...for my track car? The TC is a poor choice for a race car end of story.

In Japan, spec racing with Honda Integra Type-R's and Civic Type-R's are immensely popular. On a smaller, tighter track, I see no reason why the tC wouldn't be. Having driven both Type-R's in Japan while I lived there on a track and in the mountains they are great fun sport coupes.

As has been stated thousands of times and I haven't seen anyone dissagree, it is 90% driver. Spec racing isn't about who has the biggest pocketbook and IMHO separates the men from the boys.

The tC is light, has a strong engine (note I didn't say powerfull), rigid, solid construction, and handles well for an entry-level sport coupe in the hands of a good driver. Due to it being an entry-level sport coupe they are also cheap. All good qualities for a spec, track car. Am I wrong?

Scott

[low trq]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

In Japan, spec racing with Honda Integra Type-R's and Civic Type-R's are immensely popular. On a smaller, tighter track, I see no reason why the tC wouldn't be. Having driven both Type-R's in Japan while I lived there on a track and in the mountains they are great fun sport coupes.

As has been stated thousands of times and I haven't seen anyone dissagree, it is 90% driver. Spec racing isn't about who has the biggest pocketbook and IMHO separates the men from the boys.

The tC is light, has a strong engine (note I didn't say powerfull), rigid, solid construction, and handles well for an entry-level sport coupe in the hands of a good driver. Due to it being an entry-level sport coupe they are also cheap. All good qualities for a spec, track car. Am I wrong?

Scott

Did you even read my other posts in this thread? I'm not even going to respond.

P.S. I wouldn't consider any cars over 3,000 pounds to be "light", sorry.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by low trq

You fail. Your premise is that it's 90% driver, agreed. So that means I should pick a poor track car...for my track car? The TC is a poor choice for a race car end of story.

:Yawn: Guess that's why the Civic is the world record holder for FWD at every track huh...oh that's right I forgot, it wasn't. Now that I think of it, has it ever held a record at any track for FWD?

[n2oinferno]

This thread makes me want to mod my wife's Camry.

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Winning what? I didn't say you sound crazy, just saying you didn't do any research. If you want to know how it performs on a race track, then it would only be rational to actually go out and seek the information rather than just waiting for one to just "show up" at your local track day. Your local spots aren't the only ones people visit.

Secondly, just because you don't see that many, has no bearing on the capability of the car itself. It's just the demographic is largely about the lifestyle than the performance, so you will see more of the lifestyle than you will see that many at the track. Where I'm from, I've seen them hit the tracks and do really well. And then of course there are vids on Youtube of guys chasing down cars that you would think they wouldn't be able too...because it's a Scion tC as people would say (whatever that is suppose to mean).

I could chase down cars in my 160 hp 240sx, but the car was still slow as dirt. Drivers are usually the biggest factor when comparing rookies to tenured drivers. I would guess that the majority of these videos you have seen of the TC's chasing down big name sports cars, were tenured drivers chasing down rookies. I was beating a Stage 3 Rousch Mustang in my 240sx with a stock KA24 by 13 seconds a lap (roughly 4 mile road course), but that was because he was a terrible driver.

When I say "winning" I am referring to being very competitive. These cars require a lot of money to become "Competitive" race cars, but that really is a relative statement. You make it sound like the track I race at is just the local speed oval or something? I have raced in Portland, Salt Lake, Nevada, and all over California. There are not many of these cars showing up to events. Like I said before, there are a handful of people driving them, and with the right driver and possibly some money invested, they can be competitive, but so can any other car. Out of the box, this is not considered a competitive car in any class.

[low trq]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

:Yawn: Guess that's why the Civic is the world record holder for FWD at every track huh...oh that's right I forgot, it wasn't. Now that I think of it, has it ever held a record at any track for FWD?

Did I say a civic was the fastest, or a better choice? Come on buddy... You got it.

Next week we will learn colors.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

I could chase down cars in my 160 hp 240sx, but the car was still slow as dirt. Drivers are usually the biggest factor when comparing rookies to tenured drivers. I would guess that the majority of these videos you have seen of the TC's chasing down big name sports cars, were tenured drivers chasing down rookies.

I don't mean to be rude with laughing, but that was just funny to me. Yea the tC drivers were super seasoned racers and the other cars were all noobs... Come on dude. They are all running in the same run groups. It's not an Expert tC driver running in the Novice class here.

With that said, no amount of evidence out there to support what I have said will satisfy you or the other guy (whom is less intelligent in response, so thank you for at least being mature about your retorts). But you will just create a "reason" if one does not exist to subtract from the potential possibility that a tC actually does do well at the track. So, if your curiosity ever gets the better of you just shoot me a message and I'll try and toss you some track vid links that I've come across.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by low trq

Did I say a civic was the fastest, or a better choice? Come on buddy... You got it.

Next week we will learn colors.

Same applies to the other FWD you have mentioned as well. Thank you, come again.

[low trq]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I don't mean to be rude with laughing, but that was just funny to me. Yea the tC drivers were super seasoned racers and the other cars were all noobs... Come on dude. They are all running in the same run groups. It's not an Expert tC driver running in the Novice class here.

With that said, no amount of evidence out there to support what I have said will satisfy you or the other guy (whom is less intelligent in response, so thank you for at least being mature about your retorts). But you will just create a "reason" if one does not exist to subtract from the potential possibility that a tC actually does do well at the track. So, if your curiosity ever gets the better of you just shoot me a message and I'll try and toss you some track vid links that I've come across.

Running in the same group down not mean a whole lot. I've destroyed plenty of crappy drivers in faster cars "in my same group".

Next

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I don't mean to be rude with laughing, but that was just funny to me. Yea the tC drivers were super seasoned racers and the other cars were all noobs... Come on dude. They are all running in the same run groups. It's not an Expert tC driver running in the Novice class here.

How do you know that? Lots of series run the different groups together. They run time attack while hpde 1 is going on sometimes.

Even if you are talking about advanced drivers racing advanced drivers, you would be talking about a fairly stock M3 against a heavily modified tc. Stock for stock, the tc would not be making any moves on any of the cars you mentioned with similar drivers.

Tires can also be a huge game changer. What can you tell us about the tires on these super cars the TC was beating?

Plus come on, the videos you saw were videos, on the internet. For all you know, it was during a lapping event with mixed classes or maybe even a warm up session. A guy at a Wintercross event I attended caged a mini van and beat a lot of the fwd guys, but he was a good driver. It doesn't mean the mini van was a race car.